Orbea Gain auxiliary battery

[Inveral]

Some good points on here made about reviews.

But did anyone pay to access the review they found lacking in quality?

No, and therein lies the problem.

There's a culture on the internet of free content, no one is willing to pay for it.

Proper journalism costs money, hence the free reviews are little more than rewrites of press releases.

I'm not criticising those who only read free reviews, that's their choice.

But such reviews are worth what you pay for them - nothing.

 

[Inveral]

The reviews that I was referring to were the manufacturers reviews, Orbea and Ribble and the retailers sites. Both of these reviews were not free as they would come from the manufacturers advertising budget which is built into the price of the bike. The other reviews from retailers sites and like manufacturers sites are not free as advertising is paid for by the consumer.
There are some independent reviewers that might be free but a lot of them are also paid for by the number of hits they get.
Even if a review appears to be free it should still be done reasonably well and not be misleading e.g not just lifting blurbs from the manufacturers review.

 

[youngoldbloke]

The auxiliary battery has always been shown on Ebikemotion's website, but I note it is currently labelled 'coming soon' https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/x35-light-smart-ebike-system/ . The claims made for the app have been over optimistic too.

 

[RobF]

The reviews that I was referring to were the manufacturers reviews, Orbea and Ribble and the retailers sites. Both of these reviews were not free as they would come from the manufacturers advertising budget which is built into the price of the bike. The other reviews from retailers sites and like manufacturers sites are not free as advertising is paid for by the consumer.
There are some independent reviewers that might be free but a lot of them are also paid for by the number of hits they get.
Even if a review appears to be free it should still be done reasonably well and not be misleading e.g not just lifting blurbs from the manufacturers review.

Manufacturers do not review their own products, they write press releases.

It's a simple fact there are very few genuine, independent, reviews because there is no money in doing them.

Worse, it costs money to do such a review.

As regards a feature/accessory such as a spare battery, all the 'reviewer' can reasonably do is take the press release on trust.

Thus we have the current shambles - the maker says there is a spare battery, but
no one has managed to buy one.

 

[vfr400]

If we have anybody good at coding, it wouldn't be difficult to knock up our own smart battery controller. All you need is two banks of MOSFETs joined to each battery going to a single output. Measure the voltage across each bank with a voltage divider and use simple logic to keep the one that has the highest voltage switched on until it reaches the same voltage as the other, then switch on the second battery in parallel.

That could be used on any bike to run two batteries in parallel regardless of state of charge. It would only cost a few quid to make.

 

[Woosh]

If we have anybody good at coding, it wouldn't be difficult to knock up our own smart battery controller. All you need is two banks of MOSFETs joined to each battery going to a single output. Measure the voltage across each bank with a voltage divider and use simple logic to keep the one that has the highest voltage switched on until it reaches the same voltage as the other, then switch on the second battery in parallel.

That could be used on any bike to run two batteries in parallel regardless of state of charge. It would only cost a few quid to make.

there is no real need for smart switching when you parallel two banks of cells. Let's say you connect the second bank to the first bank with an anti surge 0.5 Ohm resistor, after a few seconds, the two banks will self balance.

 

[RossG]

Woosh is spot on. If you take a primary (non rechargeable) cell like say a small hearing aid battery that's partially depleted and you parallel it with another new cell lets say an alkaline battery of the same voltage or near, then they will self balance. That's similar to how those battery chargers that work with primary cells work, not exactly the same but near enough. If one cell was completely depleted it won't work of course.

 

[vfr400]

there is no real need for smart switching when you parallel two banks of cells. Let's say you connect the second bank to the first bank with an anti surge 0.5 Ohm resistor, after a few seconds, the two banks will self balance.

You can't do that with an ebike battery because you're effectively charging one of the batteries through its discharge port, which bypasses all the charge controls.

You can only discharge a battery from its discharge port which is why you need a smart switch to connect two batteries of different voltages.

You don't need any switch when you connect two batteries that are already the same voltage.

 

[Woosh]

You can't do that with an ebike battery because you're effectively charging one of the batteries through its discharge port, which bypasses all the charge controls.

You can only discharge a battery from its discharge port which is why you need a smart switch to connect two batteries of different voltages.

You don't need any switch when you connect two batteries that are already the same voltage.

that's what the anti-surge resistor is there to limit the current. If you charge one cell bank from another cell bank, you can charge at higher current. Take the ubiquitous Panasonic 18650B, you can charge each cell at up to 1.5A without damage - so take a bank of 10S5P for example, if the difference in voltage is 1V, you have 2A flowing through the 0.5 Ohm resistor, that's 2A/5 = 400mA charging current per cell. It's not going to squeak.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Looking at the Gain the extra battery connects via the charging port and the CAN bus decides whether to use as a battery or a charger. It accepts 2 amps while charging and up to 12 Amps when connecting in parallel apparently (from ebikemotion documentation)

https://www.ebikemotion.com/web/x35-light-smart-ebike-system/

 

[vfr400]

that's what the anti-surge resistor is there to limit the current. If you charge one cell bank from another cell bank, you can charge at higher current. Take the ubiquitous Panasonic 18650B, you can charge each cell at up to 1.5A without damage - so take a bank of 10S5P for example, if the difference in voltage is 1V, you have 2A flowing through the 0.5 Ohm resistor, that's 2A/5 = 400mA charging current per cell. It's not going to squeak.

You're not getting it. To charge a battery through the discharge port bypasses the charge controls.

Let's say an inter-cell strip became detatched due to dodgy weld. That cell group (what's left connected) could go sky high and set the whole battery on fire.

Let's say that you joined a half-full battery to a full one with your 0.5 ohm resistor. The voltage difference would be 6v, which would give 12 amps. Do you recommend to anybody that they can use a 12 amp charger on your batteries?

 

[Woosh]

Let's say that you joined a half-full battery to a full one with your 0.5 ohm resistor. The voltage difference would be 6v, which would give 12 amps. Do you recommend to anybody that they can use a 12 amp charger on your batteries?

if you do send 6A through the 0.5A Ohm resistor, it would have gone like a fuse before the cell pack is put at risk. If you have a dodgy weld, you could not charge that faulty cell pack in the first place. Even if you could, the pack that has a dodgy weld could not get much current through before the voltage goes up.

 

[RossG]

I think the truth is you're both right here from what I can see.

 

[Woosh]

I think the truth is you're both right here from what I can see.

batteries are designed such that if you have a disconnected block, you can't charge nor discharge the cell pack, so the pack would not self combust.
So plugging in a faulty battery won't damage the rest nor vice versa.
The only danger when connecting batteries in parallel is the inrush current until the voltage of the whole set reaches equilibrium. Whichever way you use to connect the batteries, you must have a current limiter of some sort. This is commonly done through some anti surge resistors.

 

[Inveral]

Inveral,

More expensive than the Orbea but just as light (11kgs) and at least different battery options are actually available.
"Battery 250Wh internal battery, with the option to increase to 750Wh with additional batteries".
Ribble Endurance Sle:
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-endurance-sl-e/

Review:
https://ebikechoices.com/ribble-endurance-sle-review/

The Ribble Endurance uses the same motor and battery supplier as the Orbea Gain so I don’t think that they will have a spare battery available but I would be interested if there was one available.

 

[Inveral]

Inveral,
My reply from Ribble:

Ribble expect the Range Extender to be available towards the end of May, early June from their battery supplier for the SLe.
They are confident that by around late April that they will be able to advise on an in-stock date and also cost.

They will also send out communications to their newsletter subscribers informing them of when the pre-order window will open.
They anticipate this will cost in the region of £400 once available.

The X35 Range Extender will be based on a bottle-mounted format that will simply plug into the charge port and the bottom bracket junction.
[/QUO

 

[Inveral]

I noticed on the e bike forum that somebody said that they had purchased the e bike motion auxiliary battery in France. I have still not seen a release announcement on either Orbea's website or e bike motion's website but the contribution seemed certain.

 

[Capt Sisko]

Orbea Gain Range Extender Additional Battery

Buy Now - Orbea Gain Range Extender from MTB Monster

www.mtbmonster.com

I've no connection to the about company, but they're advertising them (due in at the end of June) at £549.00

 

[vfr400]

£150 with free shipping. All you need to do is splice a connector into the original battery output wires that go to the controller. Charge it separately and only connect when both batteries are fully charged. £400 saving is a massive incentive! Available now too.

284.14￡ |10s2p 36v 7ah 5.8ah Mini Bottle Ebike Battery 252wh Samsung Cell Electric Bicycle Battery For Bafang Tsdz2 500w 350w 250w Motor - Electric Bicycle Battery - AliExpress

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[Capt Sisko]

£150 with free shipping. All you need to do is splice a connector into the original battery output wires that go to the controller. Charge it separately and only connect when both batteries are fully charged. £400 saving is a massive incentive! Available now too.

284.14￡ |10s2p 36v 7ah 5.8ah Mini Bottle Ebike Battery 252wh Samsung Cell Electric Bicycle Battery For Bafang Tsdz2 500w 350w 250w Motor - Electric Bicycle Battery - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

And should something go wrong with your Gain and the dealer sees that you've hacked into the wiring system, bang goes your warranty. But it's an interesting option for when Gains get older and into the second-hand market.