I have looked at a lot of reviews of e road bikes and had settled on the Orbea Gain as the bike That suited my needs best with an auxiliary battery. All of the reviews quoted this auxiliary battery but when checking suppliers they had no knowledge of when this battery would be available. I have contacted Orbea by e mail and they do not have a release date for the battery but have said that they will update their website when they have any progress. It does make me wonder if they would be a reliable supplier but it also makes me doubt The ability of the reviewers. They all quote the auxiliary battery but none of them thought to ask about availability or price. A lot of the reviews just quote the Orbea promotianal material so casts doubt on the integrity of their reviews. I will hold off until I see positive commitment for release of battery or might go for the more expensive Fazua motor.
Orbea Gain auxiliary battery
- Thread starter Inveral
- Start date
Join the queue of Gain owners waiting for the mythical extra battery. Like you I’ve also emailed Orbea and been told ‘Next month’, ‘By the Autumn’ and ‘Early next year’, and still we wait. I’m sure it’ll happen at some point, but if it doesn’t with so many other picking up on the X35 motor it won’t be long before someone develops an aftermarket version.
I also agree with what you say about some of the reviews, it makes you wonder whether the ‘journalist’ ever actually rode one! However plenty of reviews, opinions and comments have been written within this forum as well as on Cycle Chat and Cycling UK.
If you’re still interested in a Gain, just keep one thing in mind, the Gain series are true power assisted bikes with a low torque motor and a small capacity battery that assist you rather than an electric bike that powers you. It’s small but subtle difference, but one that makes the bike ride like a regular road bike (albeit a heavy one).
I also agree with what you say about some of the reviews, it makes you wonder whether the ‘journalist’ ever actually rode one! However plenty of reviews, opinions and comments have been written within this forum as well as on Cycle Chat and Cycling UK.
If you’re still interested in a Gain, just keep one thing in mind, the Gain series are true power assisted bikes with a low torque motor and a small capacity battery that assist you rather than an electric bike that powers you. It’s small but subtle difference, but one that makes the bike ride like a regular road bike (albeit a heavy one).
Interesting choices here for electic road bikes:
Orbea Gain goes with X35 motor and 250W/hr battery
Cannondale Synapse Neo goes with the Bosch ALP and 500W/hr battery.
The Orbea is just over 13kg. The Cannondale 18kg.
5 kg seems a lot but of course the Cannondale will give you more assistance for much longer.
The questions I suppose are:
(a) whether this makes much difference to flat or downhil speeds (I always thought weight mattered primarily on climbs, but surely 5kg will slow you on the flat a bit?)
(b) how steep and long are your climbs?
Presumably the Orbea won't need assistance for slight inclines as its lesser weight means you can just pedal it at over 25kph but if you hit a long high gradient the ALP is going to made life a lot easier.
The Cannondale will need to use assist earlier and on some inclines the Orbea won't.
On inlines that drop the Orbea rider below 25kph them both will presumably work equally well, unless and until you are on a steep climb where you just need more oomph than the Orbea can give to maintain 25kph.
I have read somewhere that each extra kilo is about 3 Watts equivalent when going uphill. So I suppose one way of looking at it is whether the ALP can supply 15 W extra on climbs...and looking at the period it has to be on for how much battery it uses compared to the X35...
It would be fascinating to see some comparisons between the two in actual use with the same rider on the same route...for both speed on flat and climbs and overall battery usage/range.
Orbea Gain goes with X35 motor and 250W/hr battery
Cannondale Synapse Neo goes with the Bosch ALP and 500W/hr battery.
The Orbea is just over 13kg. The Cannondale 18kg.
5 kg seems a lot but of course the Cannondale will give you more assistance for much longer.
The questions I suppose are:
(a) whether this makes much difference to flat or downhil speeds (I always thought weight mattered primarily on climbs, but surely 5kg will slow you on the flat a bit?)
(b) how steep and long are your climbs?
Presumably the Orbea won't need assistance for slight inclines as its lesser weight means you can just pedal it at over 25kph but if you hit a long high gradient the ALP is going to made life a lot easier.
The Cannondale will need to use assist earlier and on some inclines the Orbea won't.
On inlines that drop the Orbea rider below 25kph them both will presumably work equally well, unless and until you are on a steep climb where you just need more oomph than the Orbea can give to maintain 25kph.
I have read somewhere that each extra kilo is about 3 Watts equivalent when going uphill. So I suppose one way of looking at it is whether the ALP can supply 15 W extra on climbs...and looking at the period it has to be on for how much battery it uses compared to the X35...
It would be fascinating to see some comparisons between the two in actual use with the same rider on the same route...for both speed on flat and climbs and overall battery usage/range.
5kg won't make a significant difference to speed on the flat. It will reduce acceleration, but only by quite a small amount.
Also the weight difference isn't all about the motor and battery. The ALP + 500W/hr battery has a total weight of 5.2kg. The X35 and its 250 W/hr battery about 3.2kg- so only 2kg of the 5kg weight difference is down to that.
There is no reason you couldn't get a 15kg ALP powered road bike with current tech IMHO.
And the Fazua (also zero resist) claims to have the same 3.2kg weight of the ALP for even more poke of course.
There is no reason you couldn't get a 15kg ALP powered road bike with current tech IMHO.
And the Fazua (also zero resist) claims to have the same 3.2kg weight of the ALP for even more poke of course.
Glad to see that I am not the only one to have noticed this issue with the auxiliary battery. Another issue that I have with the reviewers is that the people who are buying e bikes are not super fit road cyclists but tend to be cyclists who might not be able to cycle like they used to do when they were a bit fitter.
On the subject of the Orbea Gain I know that it does not provide the same power as some other e bikes but is more of an assist. I have a Volt Pulse e bike and it is really good on very steep hills and has a great range. I cycle with fitter cyclists and have difficulty keeping up on the flat where the 23kg weight can be a problem. This is the reason that I am looking at the Orbea. The Volt has 5 settings but I never use above the number 3 so I was hoping that the Orbea would fit the bill but am still wary due to the constant pushing out of the date for the auxiliary battery. It does make me wonder if Orbea might not be a reliable supplier.
On the subject of the Orbea Gain I know that it does not provide the same power as some other e bikes but is more of an assist. I have a Volt Pulse e bike and it is really good on very steep hills and has a great range. I cycle with fitter cyclists and have difficulty keeping up on the flat where the 23kg weight can be a problem. This is the reason that I am looking at the Orbea. The Volt has 5 settings but I never use above the number 3 so I was hoping that the Orbea would fit the bill but am still wary due to the constant pushing out of the date for the auxiliary battery. It does make me wonder if Orbea might not be a reliable supplier.
Inveral,
More expensive than the Orbea but just as light (11kgs) and at least different battery options are actually available.
"Battery 250Wh internal battery, with the option to increase to 750Wh with additional batteries".
Ribble Endurance Sle:
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-endurance-sl-e/
Review:
https://ebikechoices.com/ribble-endurance-sle-review/
More expensive than the Orbea but just as light (11kgs) and at least different battery options are actually available.
"Battery 250Wh internal battery, with the option to increase to 750Wh with additional batteries".
Ribble Endurance Sle:
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-endurance-sl-e/
Review:
https://ebikechoices.com/ribble-endurance-sle-review/
Nice post Andy, you bring up some interesting points I will attempt to answer some of them but I have never ridden an Orbea Gain so I am having to make educated guesses for some of my answers.
I think which bike would suite you better depends on
1. Your overall level of fitness in particular you hill climbing ability on a bike
2. The weather conditions in your area (ie do you live in an area with lots of wind).
3. Do you live in an area with lots of hills, in particular steep ones (over 20%).
My answers to the above questions would be 1. Not very good, I struggle on hills. 2. I live in a very windy area, North Wales Coast . 3. Lots of hills, on my usual rides, many of them very steep and fairly long.
For most perhaps even all the rides I go on I suspect I would be quicker on my Neo than I would be on the Gain. The motor on the Neo has 25% more torque than the Gain (50 Nm instead of 40 Nm), the power of an electric motor is directly proportional to its Torque so the Neo will provide around 25% more power on the hills than the Gain will. Although as you say you will save around 15 W on the Gain due to the less weight this wont make up for this big loss in power.
The gain will be a quicker on the flat and up slight inclines but for the rides I do it will be slower on the hills and slower against the wind. If your someone that lives inland and does not have too many problems with the wind and a fairly flat area then the Gain would almost certainly be a better bike for you.
I see Ribble now do a flat bar hybrid with the same motor. I would imagine that they also struggle to get the external batteries as they will come from the same place as Orbea is trying to get them from (Bikemotion)
I have e mailed Ribble asking about availability of the auxiliary battery. There is no outlook for availability and the have an estimated price. They use the same motor as the Orbea so I suspect they are waiting for Orbea to release the battery. Both manufacturers have misleading promotions and any reviews are suspect as a good reviewer would have asked about availability and price of the auxiliary battery. It makes me wonder what the reviewers actually do and do they even ride the bikes or just plagiarise the promotional blurb..
Although I do read bike reviews I do bare in mind that money (somehow or other) is usually involved so I tend to put far more faith in posters on forum who have either test rode or bought a particular bike. In all fairness to the Gain I don't think I have read any poster on any forum who has bought one, been disappointed with their purchase. They have all be very happy with the bike, but many have been waiting for the auxiliary batter for well over a year now.
No idea why it should be taking so long to bring to the market, I would have thought making an additional battery would be much easier than making the motor.
Inveral,
My reply from Ribble:
Ribble expect the Range Extender to be available towards the end of May, early June from their battery supplier for the SLe.
They are confident that by around late April that they will be able to advise on an in-stock date and also cost.
They will also send out communications to their newsletter subscribers informing them of when the pre-order window will open.
They anticipate this will cost in the region of £400 once available.
The X35 Range Extender will be based on a bottle-mounted format that will simply plug into the charge port and the bottom bracket junction.
My reply from Ribble:
Ribble expect the Range Extender to be available towards the end of May, early June from their battery supplier for the SLe.
They are confident that by around late April that they will be able to advise on an in-stock date and also cost.
They will also send out communications to their newsletter subscribers informing them of when the pre-order window will open.
They anticipate this will cost in the region of £400 once available.
The X35 Range Extender will be based on a bottle-mounted format that will simply plug into the charge port and the bottom bracket junction.
I wonder if this could provide someone with a business opportunity. There are several people that re-cell old batteries, they might be interested in manufacturing new range extender bottle batteries. There are many bike manufacturers now using the X 35 system so I would have thought there would be a good demand for the battery if it was priced at around £275.
There was talk on here of hacking a Gain to add a DIY battery when the bike first appeared.
https://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2018/11/automotive-supplier-mahle-acquires-spanish-e-bike-drive-maker-10134781 The problem has become a German one.
I am pretty sure the heat on ebikemotion from Orbea and others is pretty high and that the problem will eventually sort itself out. Ebikemotion was unable to ramp up production quickly enough to cover the unexpected high demand in motors already - they must be doing something right. They just got the demand for range extenders wrong. There is no mention of an extra battery on the Orbea site now...
I would have one if they made a step through (ladies) version of the urban model, I can't get my leg over a high bar bike with panniers. Imagine the shortage of range extenders that would cause if we older chaps could get our hands on a model that we could get on easily...
https://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2018/11/automotive-supplier-mahle-acquires-spanish-e-bike-drive-maker-10134781 The problem has become a German one.
I am pretty sure the heat on ebikemotion from Orbea and others is pretty high and that the problem will eventually sort itself out. Ebikemotion was unable to ramp up production quickly enough to cover the unexpected high demand in motors already - they must be doing something right. They just got the demand for range extenders wrong. There is no mention of an extra battery on the Orbea site now...
I would have one if they made a step through (ladies) version of the urban model, I can't get my leg over a high bar bike with panniers. Imagine the shortage of range extenders that would cause if we older chaps could get our hands on a model that we could get on easily...
Some good points on here made about reviews.
But did anyone pay to access the review they found lacking in quality?
No, and therein lies the problem.
There's a culture on the internet of free content, no one is willing to pay for it.
Proper journalism costs money, hence the free reviews are little more than rewrites of press releases.
I'm not criticising those who only read free reviews, that's their choice.
But such reviews are worth what you pay for them - nothing.
But did anyone pay to access the review they found lacking in quality?
No, and therein lies the problem.
There's a culture on the internet of free content, no one is willing to pay for it.
Proper journalism costs money, hence the free reviews are little more than rewrites of press releases.
I'm not criticising those who only read free reviews, that's their choice.
But such reviews are worth what you pay for them - nothing.
But that content often isn't free, it is paid for by advertising, some of the guys running those review sites make a decent living from publishing on the internet. And many reviews are published "for free" on the web sites of magazines which are also available in dead tree format. "Proper" journalists are lazy people too and often publish large extracts of press releases.
There is proper journalism on the internet. The real task for the reader is to differentiate between the proper and the fake journalism.
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
