Ongoing reliability of Kalkhoff/Focus Impulse 2 motors

Hi,

 

I am trying to ascertain who is having issues with Impulse II motors on Kalkhoff or Focus e-bikes (both made by Derby Cycles).

 

Personally, I had a first motor replacement after 900 miles (4 months, loud clacking/clicking noise), and then another failure at around 900 miles (7 months, very weak assistance, some loud clacking once).

 

I have found the following people reporting issues too on this forum (usually on fairly new pedelec bikes and low mileage/kilometers):

 

Username/Model/Age/Mileage

reggie_electric - Agattu - 6 months - 800km

nemesis - Focus Jarifa - 4 months - ???

Jean-christophe Saville - S11 Alfine - 14 months - 2800 miles

Lothlean - ??? - 10 months - ??

Will Tinker - Pro Connect 9 - 5 months - 500 miles

Oriteroom - Focus Aventura Impulse S10 - 10 months - 3000 miles (3rd motor)

Roger R - ??? - 6 months - 1000 miles

nightrider - Endeavour S10 - ?? - ??

bernharvey - Agattu - ?? - 400 miles

Reseg - Focus Aventura - 10 months - ?? (3rd Motor)

lowranger - Impulse 10 - ?? - 2300 miles

Biscitt - Agattu - ?? - 350 miles

Biscitt - Tasman - ?? - 100 miles

Tomtomato - Pro Connect 10 - 7 months 900 miles (2nd fault)

 

Please reply to this thread if you had a motor issue.

 

It seems quite clear to me that there is a design/quality issue with the Impulse 2 crank-driven motors, and that those should be able to last a lot longer (given the high prices of the bikes), without requiring some expensive replacements (£600, once out of warranty). Kalkhoff are not willing to provide a warranty beyond 2 years on those motors, and have made people pay for replacement out of warranty, even when low mileage was done.

 

After first saying that there were no issues, they confirmed that Kalkhoff knew about the issue, and it had been sorted. A software update can apparently prevent some clacking issues leading to failure. However, I am not aware of a recall to do so by Kalkhoff (are they just waiting for bikes to fail?).

 

The 2015 motor replacement I had (supposedly the new reliable version) failed again after a small mileage, so I am not sure the issue is really sorted.

 

Thanks,

T.

Edited May 22, 20169 yr by Tomtomato

The impulse 2 motor performs very well and has more power than the rivals plus the batteries are high range but sadly reliability leaves a lot to be desired.I am now on my second motor and in the meantime have been riding a bosch cx motored cube bike that feels weak compared to the impulse but maybe that will make it more reliable in the long run.

Why did kalkhoff ever stop using the panasonic motor,it must have been because of profit.

Why did kalkhoff ever stop using the panasonic motor,it must have been because of profit.

 

I know Kalkhoff bought out a motor manufacturer called Daum a few years ago and now brand that motor as Impulse. Presumably this allows them to reduce the motor cost element of producing an ebike. All done without passing any of the savings on to the customer of course, so yes, they dumped the excellent Panasonic motor in pursuit of greater profits.

 

It looks like this decision has reared up and bitten them on the ar$e with all of these failures. It seems to be pretty conclusive that anything more than light occasional use is going to result in a failure of the motor. They will never ever admit to this and the strategy will be to shovel all financial respondibility for long term replacements onto the customer.

 

Some customers have had 2 to 3 replacements under warranty which I think indicates that the motor has an intrinsic weakness or fault making it unfit for purpose.

 

My old Panasonic powered Kalkhoff (second motor 24000 miles) is still going strong and I would not swap it for a new impulse powered Kalkhoff.

 

Incidentally, whilst on a recent trip to Swizerland I saw several new looking Flyer bikes, they seem to be using the Panasonic or Bosch motors.

What are they in business for if not to make profit, bikes are of a secondary importance.

What are they in business for if not to make profit, bikes are of a secondary importance.

Yes profit is important in business but you must have a reliable product for customers to use.

You can only base a successful long term business on a good reputation and return custom/recommendation.

What are they in business for if not to make profit, bikes are of a secondary importance.

 

Yes indeed, profits are important. I reckon 50 Cycles make about 45% margin on a Pro Connect 10 bike, sold for £2300. Therefore, people would also expect some good after sale service for that price.

 

For instance, the first 100 miles service/check was not even included in that price. The shop didn't charge me for it, but said I was lucky not have paid the £50 charge... For some reasons, I can buy a bike from Hallfords or Evans Cycle for £200, and get a free first 6-week check...

Hi,

 

I am trying to ascertain who is having issues with Impulse II motors on Kalkhoff or Focus e-bikes (both made by Derby Cycles).

 

Personally, I had a first motor replacement after 900 miles (4 months, loud clacking/clicking noise), and then another failure at around 900 miles (7 months, very weak assistance, some loud clacking once).

 

I have found the following people reporting issues too on this forum (usually on fairly new pedelec bikes and low mileage/kilometers):

 

Username/Model/Age/Mileage

reggie_electric - Agattu - 6 months - 800km

nemesis - Focus Jarifa - 4 months - ???

Jean-christophe Saville - S11 Alfine - 14 months - 2800 miles

Lothlean - ??? - 10 months - ??

Will Tinker - Pro Connect 9 - 5 months - 500 miles

Oriteroom - Focus Aventura Impulse S10 - 10 months - 3000 miles (3rd motor)

Roger R - ??? - 6 months - 1000 miles

nightrider - Endeavour S10 - ?? - ??

bernharvey - Agattu - ?? - 400 miles

Reseg - Focus Aventura - 10 months - ?? (3rd Motor)

lowranger - Impulse 10 - ?? - 2300 miles

Biscitt - Agattu - ?? - 350 miles

Biscitt - Tasman - ?? - 100 miles

Tomtomato - Pro Connect 10 - 7 months 900 miles (2nd fault)

 

Please reply to this thread if you had a motor issue.

 

It seems quite clear to me that there is a design/quality issue with the Impulse 2 crank-driven motors, and that those should be able to last a lot longer (given the high prices of the bikes), without requiring some expensive replacements (£600, once out of warranty). Kalkhoff are not willing to provide a warranty beyond 2 years on those motors, and have made people pay for replacement out of warranty, even when low mileage was done.

 

After first saying that there were no issues, they confirmed that Kalkhoff knew about the issue, and it had been sorted. A software update can apparently prevent some clacking issues leading to failure. However, I am not aware of a recall to do so by Kalkhoff (are they just waiting for bikes to fail?).

 

The 2015 motor replacement I had (supposedly the new reliable version) failed again after a small mileage, so I am not sure the issue is really sorted.

 

Thanks,

T.

I thought 50 cycles were going to agree to honour after warranty impulse 2 motors as stated in previous posts couple of months ago, this will have to be verified.

The 2016 impulse motor has a good reliabilty record so the issues with the previous versions must have been resolved.

The 2016 impulse motor has a good reliabilty record so the issues with the previous versions must have been resolved.

We are only 5 1/2 months into 2016?

We are only 5 1/2 months into 2016?

The 2016 year model was released to buy in august 2015 in europe and the first ones were in the uk in november,i know because i had one but sold it because i prefered the mtb i already had.

It would be worth having a look on the german forums to see if any failures have occured with the latest motor.

I thought 50 cycles were going to agree to honour after warranty impulse 2 motors as stated in previous posts couple of months ago, this will have to be verified.

 

I have asked them if they could put in writing that the motor would be guaranteed for x years or x miles, and they wouldn't. I also know that some people have been charged for motor replacements out of warranty, despite low mileage done.

 

I guess Kalkhoff would only provide them with free replacements for the first 2 years anyway, and then they would have to bear the cost themselves.

The 2016 impulse motor has a good reliabilty record so the issues with the previous versions must have been resolved.

 

How do you know that?

 

If you are you talking about the Impulse Evo, then it wouldn't be much reassurance for people who have spent thousands of pounds on a bike with an Impulse 2 motor, who could be facing several trips to the shop during warranty for motor replacements, and then £600 cost once warranty is over.

 

Regarding the Impulse Evo, Kalkhoff does mention "numerous improvements", "Stronger gear", "Additional cadence sensor"...

Strange as 50 Cycles is a sponsor/business user on this website and yet no defence,no comment,no words not even a murmur which if you read into this thread makes you wonder why isn't he defending his product/products.

How do you know that?

 

If you are you talking about the Impulse Evo, then it wouldn't be much reassurance for people who have spent thousands of pounds on a bike with an Impulse 2 motor, who could be facing several trips to the shop during warranty for motor replacements, and then £600 cost once warranty is over.

 

Regarding the Impulse Evo, Kalkhoff does mention "numerous improvements", "Stronger gear", "Additional cadence sensor"...

Yes the new 2016 evo motor,there doesn`t look like any have failed because i can`t find reference to any failures.It could be that the new internals have worked.

Strange as 50 Cycles is a sponsor/business user on this website and yet no defence,no comment,no words not even a murmur which if you read into this thread makes you wonder why isn't he defending his product/products.

I have noticed 50 cycles are now selling other electric bikes,maybe they are getting ready to abandon ship again.

Yes the new 2016 evo motor,there doesn`t look like any have failed because i can`t find reference to any failures.It could be that the new internals have worked.

Actually, there are a few failures already reported on various forums, but it may not be for the same reasons.

 

The new 2016 Evo motor is also only available on a few high price bikes.

 

I believe Kalkhoff are still selling bikes with the Impulse 2 motor, even though they are aware of design flaws and repeat breakdowns/failures. They seemed to have changed the software to reduce the strain on the motor (read: throttle down assistance) in certain conditions, but I don't believe the flawed mechanical components have been changed.

I believe Kalkhoff are still selling bikes with the Impulse 2 motor, even though they are aware of design flaws and repeat breakdowns/failures. They seemed to have changed the software to reduce the strain on the motor (read: throttle down assistance) in certain conditions, but I don't believe the flawed mechanical components have been changed.

 

I'm not so sure they were flawed components. The troublesome gear was perfectly ok in the Impulse 1. It was only the power race they entered into with the Impulse 2 that caused the problem, so phasing that power back down to more sensible levels could well be the answer. In short, it was the desire to have the most powerful legal crank unit that was unwise without a complete redesign.

.

The troublesome gear was perfectly ok in the Impulse 1

.

 

I thought some of the gears had been changed to plastic to make the motor quieter (while increasing its torque at the same time)?

 

I guess if their motor parts can't handle the extra torque, then the design can be considered flawed. It also seems that some sensors are failing in the motor (and the Evo version is now "more robust" and "with extra sensors").

I thought some of the gears had been changed to plastic to make the motor quieter.

 

As far as I know it always had the nylon intermediate gear wheel.

 

Originally created by the Daum company before Kalkhoff got the rights, it had software programming that tempered the power peaks. Basically on setting off or first applying any higher power stage, the full power only lasted a few seconds and then slightly reduced.

 

The customers didn't like that so Kalkhof altered it both in the production and after market via the agents resetting it. From then the full power was available all the time in the Impulse 1, but that increase didn't cause any problems.

 

Initially the Impulse 2 didn't seem to cause any problems, here at least, but its software was changed a few times, both in terms of power level and in varying the power during gear changes to smooth those. The nylon gear shredding seemed to coincide with that period of software changes.

 

Of course I've no way of knowing if they ever had any batches of faulty components, but the indications are that it was the continuous increases in power output and torque that produced the problem. Not surprising, Heinzmann for many years had only supplied a nylon gear in their road legal 200 watt motor, all the higher rated ones with steel gears.

.

Reading the Derby Cycle press release of the Impulse Evo release is, I think, interesting:

 

http://www.derby-cycle.com/en/press/press-releases-brands/single-view/view/always-one-idea-ahead-with-kalkhoff-almost-everything-is-new-1.html

 

===== some abstracts ==============

More powerful, quieter, more durable: the new Impulse Evo drive

 

Thanks to a supplementary cadence sensor, the Impulse Evo assists the rider even more smoothly. All the components of the Impulse Evo motor are designed with durability in mind: the gear unit has been reinforced, the new deflection shaft and the new drawn-cup roller clutch are even sturdier, and the innovative multi-tooth axle ensures a secure crank assembly.

================================

 

The vocabulary used indicates a lot of work/focus on durability/reliability... as if the previous version (Impulse 2) needed some work.

Edited May 30, 20169 yr by Tomtomato

I'm not sure what to make of this thread, of Kalkhoff, or of the e-bike market in general.

 

This is not intended as a criticism aimed at anyone. I'm simply not sure.

 

Here is what I am sure of:

 

Positives

 

1) My Impulse 2 motor (on my Pro Connect 9) has completed almost 2,000 miles. I don't think a motor failure is imminent, so I think it will likely go quite a bit further.

2) The Yamaha SyncDrive motors on my previous e-bike(s) (Giant Prime E+ 2014 and 2015 models) managed nothing like this mileage. The first was a bag of bolts from purchase. The second began to fail after around 900 miles.

3) To their credit, Kalkhoff have now acknowledged a fault. 50Cycles have assured me, repeatedly, that if my motor fails they will replace it without a question asked. I have no reason not to believe them.

 

Negatives

4) There are occasional clacking, chain-slippy (but not actual chain slip) moments riding my Pro Connect 9. I'm a bit disappointed about this considering the cost of the bicycle.

5) Kalkhoff did not immediately acknowledge a problem.

6) My bike cost £1800. That's a huge amount of money for a bike. Kalkhoff have a reputation for making e-bikes at the premium end of the market. But look at the breakdown of components on my 'premium' bike:

 

Shimano Deore Gears - £25 entry level

Shimano Alivio Shifters - £25

Shimano M396, hydraulic disc brakes - £30 entry level

 

I'm not claiming they are bad components - they aren't. But what constitutes the bulk of the hefty price I paid for my bicycle?

 

I'm not against companies making a tidy profit on their products. Not at all. But, now that I know a little more about bicycles (than I did when I first began purchasing my commuting bikes), I'm disappointed in what to me is a lack of perceived value in what I have. I don't want or expect entry level components on a premium, expensive product.

 

I should make it clear that the Giant bikes I had prior were similar in their use of entry-level parts (that and they broke down a lot).

 

So, Kalkhoff. If you want me to purchase another one of your bikes, please:

 

* Make me confident it's hard as nails and won't break down in a hurry

* Be a bit more generous in what you provide for the price-tag.

Edited June 1, 20169 yr by Will Tinker

Why are the S class motors more expensive than the legal 250w versions ?,we are told that the internals are stronger because of the higher speeds but i don`t think that is true.

The 2016 year model was released to buy in august 2015 in europe and the first ones were in the uk in november,i know because i had one but sold it because i prefered the mtb i already had.

It would be worth having a look on the german forums to see if any failures have occured with the latest motor.

My Agattu is a 2016 model which I got very early but as has been pointed out, the same as the earlier models in terms of the Impulse 2 motor. I considered the Evo models but couldn't afford the price tag, having already blown my initial budget, and actually didn't want to run the risk of something very desirable getting nicked. The Agattu is more workmanlike than sleek.

 

I bought my bike as it was marketed as a commuter bike, which implies regular use. I use it everyday 9 miles each way, and as I live in Edinburgh it gets its fair share of hills. I ride it sensibly in terms of gear selection, use of power and loads. I will monitor closely if my new second motor lasts, luckily I am using it enough so that it gets to a high enough mileage within the warranty period for any failings to occur while they're still covered.

 

Like someone else said, there are a lot of ebikes on the market but some just won't have the same power. But reliability and peace of mind is needed too.

Hi, thanks for starting this thread and raising this important issue again. As you correctly stated above I bought my Pro Connect 10 last year and the motor started failing within weeks. I think going up a steep hill in high power initially caused the problem. I stuck with it and took video recordings of the problem which I posted on YouTube (you should find them quite easily) and sent to 50 cycles. They eventually agreed to replace the motor, it had done 1000 miles by then (within 6 months). They paid for replacement and fitting but I had to bring it over from North Wales and spend an overnight in Loughborough.

 

Since I've had the new motor fitted I've never had it out of Eco - I daren't based on feedback in these forums. If there were enough people we could threaten a Class Action against Kalkhoff although that would take a lot of organising, time and energy. Probably never going to happen.

 

So I'm still happily riding my bike but being very careful not to push the motor at all!

 

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