Ongoing reliability of Kalkhoff/Focus Impulse 2 motors

[4bound]

I thought there might be some interest on this thread in this ride which I did this week on my Kalkhoff. It was a tough 92 miles with 9000ft of climbing. I took a second battery with me and used about 50% of its capacity as well as my first battery. The bike behaved perfectly throughout despite the appalling conditions on the roads. I have to admit by bike has still completed less than 1000 miles since new.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1243570906

 

[flecc]

I thought there might be some interest on this thread in this ride which I did this week on my Kalkhoff. It was a tough 92 miles with 9000ft of climbing. I took a second battery with me and used about 50% of its capacity as well as my first battery. The bike behaved perfectly throughout despite the appalling conditions on the roads. I have to admit by bike has still completed less than 1000 miles since new.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1243570906

And I hope it continues like that to a long and rewarding life. I think it's clear that not every Impulse 2 motor fails and yours may be one of those that will be reliable. I suspect the rider and riding style plays a part too, some suffering multiple unit failures while others suffer none.
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[lordvincent]

A worrying aspect for me is that Daum may have known from the outset that their motor unit had strength limitations.

I mentioned in my previous post that the Daum had a strange software quirk. In practice when higher power was selected, the unit initially delivered much more for a few seconds but then reduced it a little. Reviewers disliked that disconcerting feature, and so did the early customers, so a software upgrade was issued to remove that automatic power reduction.

My question is, why was that there in the first instance? Was it to preserve the unit from early failure due to the stresses of high power mode? We'll never know of course, but it's reasonable to think that might be the case. That could certainly account for the high failure rate of the more powerful Impulse 2 units which were effectively always in higher power modes.
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I actually quite liked that software 'quirk'. It sort of gave you a push start, magnifying your effort more in that first stage, then settled down to the regular power assistance. It was particularly welcome on hill starts.

The graph is here:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/766110/Kalkhoff-Pedelec-Impulse.html?page=173#manual

It's a bit like, when regular cycling, one needs to initially put it more effort to get started, then enter a regular pedalling stroke. I missed it for a while when the firmware was 'upgraded', and the reason given to me was that the new software 'protected the motor', the implication being that the initial burst of power was potentially doing some damage.

The new software also had three internal 'profile' options, which can only be changed with the use of a special device, and when this was changed to the highest setting the power was consistently better than the original software (except for the initial start-up period).

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I thought there might be some interest on this thread in this ride which I did this week on my Kalkhoff. It was a tough 92 miles with 9000ft of climbing. I took a second battery with me and used about 50% of its capacity as well as my first battery. The bike behaved perfectly throughout despite the appalling conditions on the roads. I have to admit by bike has still completed less than 1000 miles since new.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1243570906

I wish you good fortune with that bike, but by all reckonings, you'll be enjoying it for about another 750 miles. Please let us know how you get on

 

[flecc]

The graph is here:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/766110/Kalkhoff-Pedelec-Impulse.html?page=173#manual

Thanks for the input of your preference, all those I'd previously heard from disliked the step down in power.

Your link though is nothing to do with the Impulse units, it's about the Xion rear hub motor that some Kalkhoff models had, a Direct Drive unit with switchable regeneration capability.
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[Will Tinker]

I thought there might be some interest on this thread in this ride which I did this week on my Kalkhoff. It was a tough 92 miles with 9000ft of climbing. I took a second battery with me and used about 50% of its capacity as well as my first battery. The bike behaved perfectly throughout despite the appalling conditions on the roads. I have to admit by bike has still completed less than 1000 miles since new.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1243570906

The difficulty of the terrain didn't seem much of a factor for most Impulse 2 owners on this thread. Rather, the problem was one of the motor expiring abnormally fast (for most here, in under a thousand miles).

My first Impulse 2, I managed to reach a little over 2,000 miles, although problems were becoming evident after only around 500 miles. The second motor only lasted a few hundred miles before becoming pretty much un-rideable.

I hope that you are more fortunate, and happy you're enjoying your bike for now.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's weird how many second motors expired nearly immediately. I'm wondering how much of a new motor they actually were. You would expect them to last approximately the same as the original, but some people had two or three replacement motors in quick succession.

 

[lordvincent]

Thanks for the input of your preference, all those I'd previously heard from disliked the step down in power.

Your link though is nothing to do with the Impulse units, it's about the Xion rear hub motor that some Kalkhoff models had, a Direct Drive unit with switchable regeneration capability.
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You're correct, the link is from the Xion section, but the graph is the same as the impulse one. Hopefully this is from the correct section:

http://www.derby-cycle.com/fileadmin/Media/Downloads/Bedienungsanleitungsportal/2_Impulse/1_Impulse_1.0/Version_1_Pedelec_Impulse_1.0_DE_EN_06_2011.pdf#page=39&zoom=auto,-466,37

To me, it wasn't so much a reduction in power, but rather an initial boost followed by normal assistance.

 

[Crockers]

It's weird how many second motors expired nearly immediately. I'm wondering how much of a new motor they actually were. You would expect them to last approximately the same as the original, but some people had two or three replacement motors in quick succession.

I would very much expect they are reconditioned units. Obviously not very well reconditioned.

 

[tillson]

I’m astonished how long the Impulse motor situation has been ongoing. It must be damaging Kalkhoff’s reputation and the long term interests of the business.

I know, we on Pedelecs, are very much a minority in terms of ebike users, so there must be many people buying Kalkhoffs in blissful ignorance of the situation. Once bitten, I can’t see them recommending the brand or becoming repeat customers.

I was a huge fan of Kalkhoff bikes when they used the Panasonic motor, but I wouldn’t touch these things. My friend is now on motor number 5, which he has had to buy. This is completely unacceptable for a bike aimed at the top end of the market and carrying a price tag to match. This is £300 bike reliability at a £2K + bike cost. They really are taking people for idiots.

 

[Ocsid]

The more so for the dealers here in the UK with the powerful provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which will be my recourse if ever need with my wifes' bike.
The "evidence" available here and elsewhere on-line I would think should be quite convincing that the motors have an inherent weakness limiting their fitness for purpose.
I am hoping that will cover us for 6 years after which I doubt we would feel we had not got what we were sold.
Could all go pear-shaped if the dealer simply restructures their operation walking away from the liabilities.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Could all go pear-shaped if the dealer simply restructures their operation walking away from the liabilities.

They already have. I helped out a guy with a replacement motor. The bike had done about 1700 miles and was out of warranty. He contacted 50 Cycles, who washed their hands of it. They said that there's a new UK agent now, so nothing to do with them, even though they were the distributor at the time ofthe sale. He contacted Kalkhoff UK or whoever the new agents are, and they couldn't help either, other than to sell a new motor at over £600.

 

[Ocsid]

They already have. I helped out a guy with a replacement motor. The bike had done about 1700 miles and was out of warranty. He contacted 50 Cycles, who washed their hands of it. They said that there's a new UK agent now, so nothing to do with them, even though they were the distributor at the time ofthe sale. He contacted Kalkhoff UK or whoever the new agents are, and they couldn't help either, other than to sell a new motor at over £600.

That simply is not how the CRA 2015 works for sales affected, i.e. those from 1/10/2015. If the advice I received is correct then even misleading customers with a statement like that will move them into really serious criminal offence territory, denying Consumer Rights.
Unless 50 Cycles he purchased from is a wholly different company to the 50 Cycles he contacted.

Kalkhoff are not involved the claim is only against the seller, how they sort it with Kalkhoff is of no consequence legally to the buyer.

 

[tillson]

They already have. I helped out a guy with a replacement motor. The bike had done about 1700 miles and was out of warranty. He contacted 50 Cycles, who washed their hands of it. They said that there's a new UK agent now, so nothing to do with them, even though they were the distributor at the time ofthe sale. He contacted Kalkhoff UK or whoever the new agents are, and they couldn't help either, other than to sell a new motor at over £600.

50 Cycles is still a Kalkhoff agent isn’t it? The website still has that brand for sale. I don’t understand how they can claim the issue has nothing to do with them. I am assuming that they sold the original bike?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't know if said bike came directly from 50C or through a local agent. The phone conversation went something like, "I have a Kalkoff with a clacking motor. I heard that the manufacturers have offered some sort of help with repairs". Reply from 50C, "Nothing to do with us, we're no longer the Kalkhoff agents, ring the new UK agents who are...". He rang whoever the new agents are, who said that it was nothing to do with them because it was bought before they were the agents. He gave up at that point and accepted my offer to put in a replacement motor from that German supplier as it had a robust 2 year guarantee.

 

[tillson]

I don't know if said bike came directly from 50C or through a local agent. The phone conversation went something like, "I have a Kalkoff with a clacking motor. I heard that the manufacturers have offered some sort of help with repairs". Reply from 50C, "Nothing to do with us, we're no longer the Kalkhoff agents, ring the new UK agents who are...". He rang whoever the new agents are, who said that it was nothing to do with them because it was bought before they were the agents. He gave up at that point and accepted my offer to put in a replacement motor from that German supplier as it had a robust 2 year guarantee.

OK, I see that Rutland Cycling are now selling Kalkhoff bikes. They are close to me and are a big concern, so possibly the new UK agent. I didn’t know that.

I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that bikes are a peculiar warranty case, in that the buyer’s warranty is with the retailer, not the manufacturer.

 

[flecc]

I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that bikes are a peculiar warranty case, in that the buyer’s warranty is with the retailer, not the manufacturer.

That's everything in consumer law, not just e-bikes. The retailer has the liability.
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[Deleted member 4366]

Any legal claim is with the local dealer, but most ethical distributors would accept responsibility to sort things out in the event that there's problems with the local dealer. Look at how Wisper operate.

 

[Aftersales 50cycles UK]

Any legal claim is with the local dealer, but most ethical distributors would accept responsibility to sort things out in the event that there's problems with the local dealer. Look at how Wisper operate.

Hi All,

Yes we can confirm Kalkhoff have been highly supportive on the matter and all motor changes from bikes sold by us have been replaced under warranty without any cost to the customer. We cannot speak for customers who did not by from us and unless there is an order reference number or a picture of the bike I would doubt the recent claims on this thread by trolls that have just joined recently.

On that note we can continue to sell the Kalkhoff bikes with confidence as with all good manufacturers they have learnt from their mistakes and we would say their motors are now bullet proof and will continue to be some of the most reliable bikes out there. Which is why we still run with this system on our own best selling Beat Bikes. We have access to all on the market but we only sell the best which is why we have been in business for so long and continue to grow strongly around the UK.

It is a very exciting year for us at 50cycles now that we are the leading supplier for Kalkhoff, Scott, Cube and Reise & Muller.

It is also an exciting time for electric bike consumers because it is a buyers market at the moment with such good bikes out there at very reasonable low prices for the price vs spec ratio.

If anybody does have a genuine problem with any of the brands we sell you can contact me Joe on aftersales@50cycles.com

Best regards

Joe

(admin note: username updated today from "Aftersales Kalkhoff UK" to "Aftersales 50cycles UK" by admin for clarity)

 

[Ocsid]

Any legal claim is with the local dealer, but most ethical distributors would accept responsibility to sort things out in the event that there's problems with the local dealer. Look at how Wisper operate.

No, the legal claim under CRA 2015, as was the case under the earlier SOGA, is/was uniquely with the actual "seller" involved in the purchase whether they are local or not.
But, I agree the main distributor and maker should ethically pick up and run with giving the same support where the seller is no longer on the scene to meet their legal obligations. Sadly in the case you mentioned that was not their stance and that is very worrying and a very big red flag to potential buyers, particularly buying from more commercially fragile sellers.