Nuts always getting loose

[Black Dog]

Nylocs.....but don't forget to use new ones every time you change....to work properly the nylon insert is one time use.
KudosDave

I don't want to start an argument here, but that's a counsel of perfection. I have re-used Nylocs for many years and never had one loosen off. I would guess that as long as the thread is clean, it's possible (and safe) to use a Nyloc nut 5-6 times before it starts losing its grip. If it resists you when you are tightening it, it will resist loosening afterwards. I don't think I have ever used a Nyloc in a critical position like an axle or hub nut on a car or motorbike, and I would probably use a new one for this application. But for a bicycle axle I don't think I would be over-concerned. If it worries the OP, I would suggest spending a few quid on a large bag of them and carry a couple along with the patch kit.

 

[the_killjoy]

Just seen the Nord Lock video, excellent presentation.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I don't want to start an argument here, but that's a counsel of perfection. I have re-used Nylocs for many years and never had one loosen off. I would guess that as long as the thread is clean, it's possible (and safe) to use a Nyloc nut 5-6 times before it starts losing its grip. If it resists you when you are tightening it, it will resist loosening afterwards. I don't think I have ever used a Nyloc in a critical position like an axle or hub nut on a car or motorbike, and I would probably use a new one for this application. But for a bicycle axle I don't think I would be over-concerned. If it worries the OP, I would suggest spending a few quid on a large bag of them and carry a couple along with the patch kit.

On the works Ford Rally cars we used to use Nylocs on steering rack track rod ends,TCA /Strut taper pins and steering arm mounts....I dont suppose they would pass MOT,if the steering fails you wait for the big accident,new Nylocs every build!!!!!
KudosDave

 

[RobF]

We used to reuse Nylocs on road cars a couple of times.

I can't recall exactly what they were fitted to, but it wasn't anything safety critical.

It was also rare to replace a spring or star washer, even though strictly they are also single use.

On a related topic, when my brother was in the RAF he worked on the Queen's Flight.

He told me the main difference between that and servicing other jets was if any fixing was removed, it was replaced with new, rather than being reused.

 

[VictoryV]

We used to reuse Nylocs on road cars a couple of times.

I can't recall exactly what they were fitted to, but it wasn't anything safety critical.

It was also rare to replace a spring or star washer, even though strictly they are also single use.

On a related topic, when my brother was in the RAF he worked on the Queen's Flight.

He told me the main difference between that and servicing other jets was if any fixing was removed, it was replaced with new, rather than being reused.

Also, all lifed items were only run to 50% life before being changed, then they had to have a short period bed-in use before an operational flight with HRH.

We had a similar requirment for a single 1 off flight of the Duke of Kent in a Jaguar. Two aircraft were selected, (only one was need) and all documentation examined and lifed items over 50% of normal life were replaced. the ac were then flown for 10 hours to bed in the new items. Only the nominated aircrew and groundcrew were allowed to fly/service the ac, and the aircraft themselves were under RAF Police guard 24/7 until the flight. All this just for 1 hour flight

 

[Black Dog]

On the works Ford Rally cars we used to use Nylocs on steering rack track rod ends,TCA /Strut taper pins and steering arm mounts....I dont suppose they would pass MOT,if the steering fails you wait for the big accident,new Nylocs every build!!!!!
KudosDave

No argument from me about using new fasteners in safety-critical applications. Also, it helps if you are set up for this kind of thing. Presumably a works rally team has access to the odd spare fastener in the communal toolbox! For the average Joe working on his driveway, with Halfords ten miles away and probably shut, it's sensible to re-use all sorts of stuff if it's non-critical and looks to be in good order. I've used all sorts of fasteners - old nuts, new nuts, chewed nuts, plain washers, fancy washers, no washers - on my bikes over the years, never seen a torque wrench, done up 'tight enough', and I have never had a wheel fall out yet

 

[OldBob1]

Lock tight or similar are a good bit of kit in your tool box

 

[cwah]

I checked for nord lock 14mm on ebay and seller is quoting me 10 euro for shipping:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111832103217?_trksid=p2057872.m2750.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

So it's going to cost me like £15 for few washer... anyway I can find cheaper shop?

 

[danielrlee]

I'm not too sure. I found 12mm on ebay from the UK which fit my Crystalyte H3540 perfectly.

 

[cwah]

What's the axle diameter of your crystalyte? My leaf motor is 14mm

 

[danielrlee]

What's the axle diameter of your crystalyte? My leaf motor is 14mm

This is what confuses me. The technical diagram here says it is M14 (14mm):
http://www.crystalyte.com/Crystalyte HS_HT35 rear motor drawing.pdf

Yet, my digital calipers tell me that it is 12mm. So I ordered the M12 Nord-Locks.

I can't give you a definitive answer concerning your motor axle, but considering the custom frame building you are getting involved in, a set of digital calipers would probably be a good £10 investment.

 

[danielrlee]

Here you go. NL14 at £1.92 a pop:

http://www.ondrives.com/nl14

Let us know how much p&p is.

 

[soundwave]

£4.99 rm 1st class

 

[cwah]

This is what confuses me. The technical diagram here says it is M14 (14mm):
http://www.crystalyte.com/Crystalyte HS_HT35 rear motor drawing.pdf

Yet, my digital calipers tell me that it is 12mm. So I ordered the M12 Nord-Locks.

I can't give you a definitive answer concerning your motor axle, but considering the custom frame building you are getting involved in, a set of digital calipers would probably be a good £10 investment.

Just checked with my caliper. My axle is about 10.5mm on the flat side and 13.5mm on the threaded side. So definitely a M14 is needed

 

[cwah]

I bought these nord lock M14 and these stick by pack of 2. What I've noticed is that once I remove the nut its a bit harder to remove but once removed the washed becomes 2 washers...

Anyway it doesn't work very well:

I tried to put medium strength loctite instead... and it doesn't work either... i think it may be because i use regen....

Any clue what best for next? shall I buy high strength loctite? Maybe super glue the nut?

 

[flecc]

Any clue what best for next?

With plenty of thread there, put on a second nut and using two spanners, lock the outer one very tight against the inner one. That should stop the inner one undoing. Double nutting like that is one of the most secure methods there is.
.

 

[RobF]

'If one won't do, use two' is a useful maxim.

It can be applied to batteries, jackets, gloves, hats and no doubt lots of other things.

I first heard the phrase in relation to the railways, where it's routine to deploy a second locomotive to pull a heavy train up a gradient.

There is a bridge on the C2C path in County Durham which is double width.

It's a former railway line, and the bridge is where the second loco was parked to haul the train up to Consett.

 

[danielrlee]

I bought these nord lock M14 and these stick by pack of 2. What I've noticed is that once I remove the nut its a bit harder to remove but once removed the washed becomes 2 washers...

Anyway it doesn't work very well:

I tried to put medium strength loctite instead... and it doesn't work either... i think it may be because i use regen....

Any clue what best for next? shall I buy high strength loctite? Maybe super glue the nut?

The Nord Lock washers are split into two parts. They are meant to separate like that as movement between the parts allows the cams to push the halves apart and create torque.

I'm running regen on a 60A controller and they do a great job at keeping my nuts tight. I'm really not sure why you are experiencing so much movement of your motor axle. Have you inspected your dropouts to see if there is any serious deformation present?

Have you tried applying a slither of grease in between the two Nord Lock halves before re-tightening them? That should help movement between the cams and allow them to give maximum torque. Also, make sure that the surfaces that the washers snug up against are nice and clean and free from oil, grease and crud.

 

[cwah]

I've used double nut in the past and I wasn't too happy with the results... I'd like to avoid that if possible

and yes, there is a bit of play in the dropout as it has been slightly worn out... however, I'd still expect the nut to hold tight. Would adding grease make a difference? what grease should I get?

 

[RobF]

I've used double nut in the past and I wasn't too happy with the results... I'd like to avoid that if possible

and yes, there is a bit of play in the dropout as it has been slightly worn out... however, I'd still expect the nut to hold tight. Would adding grease make a difference? what grease should I get?

A tiny bit of grease - any grease - on the thread will help the nut nip up tighter.