Noisy Bafung Hub Motor

[averhamdave]

This is back on my Torq1.

Thanks for the help so far with this recently aquired bike. I have established that the battery is weak and have today re-connected the "restrictor" wire and the situation is a little better - in terms of distance but still not acceptable.

I am prepared to spend money on the bike but need to be sure other issues are sorted before I fork out £400 on a battery.

I'm back with the noisy motor. I've had it off again and stripped and done further cleaning. The gears are good, everythings nicely lubricated but the noise is still not acceptable under power. Its a grumbling chattering noise particularly evident when you ease off the throttle. Under full power and pedalling at speed, say 20+ its not to bad but at walking speed I would say its embarrassingly noisy!

Basically I need to sort this noise out before I go further. If its electrical, what is it and how can I sort it? Any other ideas?
Thanks once again, Dave

 

[NRG]

I'm afraid that's more or less normal. Both of my motors make grumbling noises, the Alien being the worse. If regressing hasn't helped then there's not much else you can do, I suppose you could try to replace the gear assembly but I fear that would only be a temporary solution...

 

[flecc]

Yes, the only time they are fairly quiet is when they are up to around full speed. With a healthy motor the noisiest time is under full acceleration from low revs when it's a loud low growling combined with a whine which, as the speed rises, gradually loses the lower frequency component, leaving mainly the whine.

There are variations in degree from motor to motor even when new, but if yours roughly fits that description it's fairly normal.
.

 

[mechaniker]

if you use different controller, you receive different noise and vibration on e-bike Motor´s. Good controller produce low motor-noise and some ... forget it.

it depend on different quality´s at the controller and what is inside the controller and the programming of the controller

in china start e-ebike controller at 7euro

regards
frank

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You might want to just live with it for a bit. It might just need a bit of running in. After I installed a Bafang motor in my kit bike, it made such a terrible noise at all speeds that I was going to send it back, but it gradualy quietened down over about 200 miles and now it only makes a slight noise at low speed and is virtually silent above that.

 

[piotrmacheta]

I agree, they sound a lot quieter after a few hundred miles but some are quieter than others when new.

 

[saneagle]

I agree,i have a noisy motor when going under 10 mph,but once over that it is quiet.As above,i would say it is more than likely to be normal.I have done around 350 miles on my motor since new.

 

[averhamdave]

No, it's no good

I took my wife's Ezee Liv out for a spin this morning and had forgot how quiet it runs and how powerful and smooth it is.

Tried the Torq again, with the Liv battery and its awful. All you think about is the noise and how the noise characteristics change as you apply and reduce power etc. When passing pedestrians you aren't sure what to do - other than look the other way!

I really wanted the Torq to be good. Its a lovely bike, just the right size for me and I would have spent the money on a battery but not with the motor like this.

I have stripped, cleaned, greased and done everything I can think of but it isn't right. If it were new you would take it back to the shop immediately.

So - one Ezee Torq for sale, weak battery, slightly noisy motor - cheap!

 

[jerrysimon]

Have you tried a Tongxin motor

Regards

Jerry

 

[averhamdave]

Have you tried a Tongxin motor

Regards

Jerry

No I haven't, why?

 

[flecc]

That doesn't sound right, it shouldn't be that bad, either in isolation or compared with the Liv.

It may be a faulty connection to one of the Hall sensors in the motor or a failed or failing Hall sensor, either can cause harsh mechanical noises and very rough running. Personally I don't think of a motor with this type of fault as usable.

The Hall sensors are buried in the stator and it is just possible to dig them out and replace them, but it's not an easy job to do, reconnecting, insulating and burying the wiring securely. In the photo below you can just see on the l/h side of the thicker spindle part the slot the wiring emerges from to run into the stator coils and at around 1 to 3 o'clock the wiring up to the Hall sensors which are buried in recesses at the perimeter of the stator just within the bar magnets of the rotating hub. Whole new motors need not be expensive so complete replacement could be an option:

P.S. The roller drive Tongxin motor is very quiet and has no rolling resistance when pedalling without power. It is quite a lot less powerful than the Torq motor though and you'd need the correct replacement controller too.
.

 

[mechaniker]

I agree with flecc that the hall-sensor replacement is´nt an easy job, i would not do it.

If a sensor is failed , I would use an sensorless controller and forget the hall-sensor´s

I like easy solution.

You know how to measure the sensors ?

regards
frank

 

[averhamdave]

Well, OK Frank and Flecc, thanks to you both again. I had read elsewhere that failed Hall Sensors could cause noise problems. Could it be a wiring connection problem, away from the motor that is the cause, ie do we get noise and rough running if there is a break in a Hall Sensor wire?

Given that I need to buy a battery I am reluctant to buy a new motor or do anything that costs a significant sum without being sure I have a fix. I'm sure you can understand.

Frank, maybe you (or Flecc) can explain how I check the sensors?

I will stick with it whilst I can see light at the end of the tunnel!

 

[flecc]

Could it be a wiring connection problem, away from the motor that is the cause, ie do we get noise and rough running if there is a break in a Hall Sensor wire?

Yes, there is no difference between a failed sensor and a break in a connection from it to the controller. The Hall sensors signal the controller the position of the rotor magnets by sensing the magnetic fields so that the controller can send the pulses of phase power perfectly timed for smooth running. If a signal is missing it's like a 3 or 4 cylinder car engine with one cylinder not firing, running very rough at anything below maximum revs and down on power.

There are 8 wires altogether, 3 thick wires supplying the current to the phases and 5 thin wires that connect the Hall sensors which are visually transistor like devices. To check the Hall sensors and motor wiring, this post by Andrew harvey gives the details:

Checking a Hall motor's wiring

If a sensor is dud, Frank's suggestion is excellent, the only downside being a slightly rougher kick off from standstill, but that's only momentary at zero mph.
.

 

[jerrysimon]

No I haven't, why?

Sorry it was said tongue in cheak.

Tongxin motors are very light and are almost silent compared to others, though have a more limited application.

Regards

Jerry

 

[tepol]

Yes, the only time they are fairly quiet is when they are up to around full speed. With a healthy motor the noisiest time is under full acceleration from low revs when it's a loud low growling combined with a whine which, as the speed rises, gradually loses the lower frequency component, leaving mainly the whine.

There are variations in degree from motor to motor even when new, but if yours roughly fits that description it's fairly normal.
.

Is the noise level an idication of level of vibrations for this motor too , I mean is it something you would feel through the seat ( on rear motor ) for example - or elsewhere, and how would does this factor in their mini hub motors like the jewel , or other ones like GM ?

tepol

 

[flecc]

Is the noise level an idication of level of vibrations for this motor too , I mean is it something you would feel through the seat ( on rear motor ) for example - or elsewhere, and how would does this factor in their mini hub motors like the jewel , or other ones like GM ?

tepol

The noise varies according to which sensor/connection has failed. It can produce a very loud bang and faint shock if it first drops out at maximum power as when climbing, but that's only momentary. Otherwise it's just noise which can be loud, not usually vibration.
.

 

[averhamdave]

I agree with flecc that the hall-sensor replacement is´nt an easy job, i would not do it.

If a sensor is failed , I would use an sensorless controller and forget the hall-sensor´s

I like easy solution.

You know how to measure the sensors ?

regards
frank

Thanks Frank.

Where do I buy one of these sensorless controllers from? How much are they?

As previously stated I'm reluctant to throw good money after bad but I do like the bike. I have just sent for one of the 36v 15a batteries from China for another project and I'm thinking I could temporarily fit this to the rear rack of the Torq, wire in a sensorless controller and see what happens!

Who knows it may even transform the bike!

Thanks, Dave

 

[mechaniker]

Thanks Frank.

Where do I buy one of these sensorless controllers from? How much are they?

Hi Dave,

i only sell to companys as you maybe notice on my website ;-(

but my good friend, Ge Shijie (e-crazyman), from Shenzhen/China sell to you the controller no problem.

his mail-contact is ecrazyman@gmail.com

send him some regards from me and he tell you the price and delivertime

If you connect his controller to Bafang you must connect the phase
green to green
yellow to blue
blue to yellow

have a nice day

frank

 

[NRG]

Hi Dave,

i only sell to companys as you maybe notice on my website ;-(

but my good friend, Ge Shijie (e-crazyman), from Shenzhen/China sell to you the controller no problem.

his mail-contact is ecrazyman@gmail.com

send him some regards from me and he tell you the price and delivertime

If you connect his controller to Bafang you must connect the phase
green to green
yellow to blue
blue to yellow

have a nice day

frank

That may have changed Frank, I've installed one og Keywin's controllers on my Alien with Bafang and there was no need to cross over the blue and yellow phase wires.