No idea which bike to buy or where to go for best advice!

[tillson]

I think it would be fairer to say that many of the Kalkhoff bikes are legal, but they do sell a few which are not. It's pretty clear which bikes don't comply with the law.

I have nothing to do with 50 Cycles and I am not particularly fond of the staff, but the bikes are very high quality and are worthy of consideration.

 

[Lynne]

Thanks!

I have been to Loughborough and came away less than impressed, not with the bike(I liked the one I tried!) but with the staff. It was as if these are the best bikes so why look at anything else, and we are the UK distributor, so why go anywhere else?!

Hence I started this thread...there has to be a better place to go! But maybe not a better bike!

 

[tillson]

Thanks!

I have been to Loughborough and came away less than impressed, not with the bike(I liked the one I tried!) but with the staff. It was as if these are the best bikes so why look at anything else, and we are the UK distributor, so why go anywhere else?!

Hence I started this thread...there has to be a better place to go! But maybe not a better bike!

Not a lot has changed at 50C then since I purchased my bike from them 4 years ago then. They are fools to adopt that attitude. Maybe they think the product will make up for a poor attitude.

 

[flecc]

There are a number of e-bikes of at least equal quality on our UK market now Lynne, including others made in Europe like the Kalkhoff. The Bosch crank drive system works similarly to the one on the Kalkhoff and is more powerful so would suit you. This post by member Eddieo details some of them, including at least one within your price bracket.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Lynne,I read back through your postings and I must say that it is going to be difficult to recommend a bike suitable for your specification.
Clearly a throttle will be a major advantage.
You need a step through with as low step over as possible
The bike must be light so that you can move it around easily
Did I interpret that you need 25 mile range minimum
The bike must go uphills with,at times,minimal rider input power.
The problem is that most bikes offer some of your requirements but to my knowledge none offer all.
Normally the crank drives do not have a throttle and also require quite a lot of ride input to get maximum hillclimbing power out. The hub drive will climb hills but you need to keep up a good speed to get the most out of the motor,at times this will be difficult for you.
The problem of visiting any dealer is that they will often try to sell you a stock bike even if it is not suitable for you,none of my dealers stock all of my range.
You could try 'greenzebracycles',they have a folder with a throttle and a very low step through,located in west london,Chris is a good guy.
You are welcome at any time down to Kudos Warehouse,we have stock of over 20 different bike styles,I suspect more than any dealer and a test track in front of the warehouse to try the bikes,there will be no pressure selling and at least you will be able to select or reject from a number of different bikes,at worst it will start to point you in the right direction.The BH Emotion City almost does the job,it is light,good brakes,good hillclimber but no throttle. The Kudos Secret is light,has a throttle,easy to ride and a good hillclimber but the step through is not especially low. The Kudos Safari does most of what you want but it is quite heavy.
For once,we do need the input from the trade and knowlegeable Pedelec owners to make sensible suggestions to help this lady,don't suggest conversions she has said she wants to buy an e-bike.
Good luck,your specification is very specific
Dave
Kudoscycles
ps The BH Emotion Neo City has a video on You Tube and BH UK have a good spec/photos on their website,I think it is a good looking bike.

 

[hoppy]

I agree it's difficult to find the perfect solution. My suggestion would be the Tonaro Esprit.

 

[funkylyn]

Hi Lynne,

Im a real fan of the Tonaro Esprit like Hoppy,but I think maybe in your case I would disagree with this as a choice as I think the amount of effort you would need to put in with a crank drive might turn out to be too tiring for you especially going uphill. I know from personal experience that the crank drive does need more input from you than a hub motor.
My advice would be to try a powerful hub motor with throttle, good hill climbing ability and large battery capacity.
Try looking at the Ezee range....renowned hill climbers, very powerful, step thru models available, throttle, option of a larger battery and good after sales.

But, as ever, try try try before you buy, find out which is right for YOU and have fun ........good luck

Lynda

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Lynne.I agree with Lynda. The problem with all those panasonic and Bosch drive bikes and many of the other expensive ones is that they don't have throttles. Sometimes your legs will get tired and without a throttle, you'll have to get off and wait. most of the cheaper bikes with hub-motors have throttles and many of the small-wheeled ones climb well because of the lower gearing. I think you need to set your sights a bit lower. The thought of £2000 to spend on a bike has sent people into a frenzy.

While I'm not advocating this bike because I think you can get a better one, I'll tell you what I saw a couple of weeks ago. I was in an Woosh Bikes shop looking at their bikes, as i was staying nearby and passed it on my way to the seafront for a ride on my bike, and along came a guy about 60 with his wife and he could hardly walk because of some illness. He said he needed a bike for transport, so the proprietor weighed him up and then said, "You need this one", and pointed to his cheapest folding bike. He then unlocked it and gave it to the guy to try, who quickly disappeared up the road without pedalling. a few minutes later, he was back - still without pedalling - and grinning all over the face with comments about how nippy it was. He immediately put his hand in his pocket and pulled out a massive bundle of £20s - at least £1000 and probably a lot more. The proprietor, having seen that bundle, made no attempt to persuade him to get a more expensive bike, and a deal was struck. It seems that some salesmen do have ethics. I don't know how much he paid, but the asking price was only £399.

 

[flecc]

I think it's worth bearing on mind that Lynne has tried the crank drive Kalkhoff and a Wisper and liked the Kalkhoff, just not the supplier. That will have been with the Impulse unit or the latest Panasonic one, both more powerful than the previous Panasonics. The alternatives with the more powerful and highly praised Bosch crank unit are therefore certainly worth her trying since she liked that type of bike. The Tonaro doesn't begin to compare in power terms, not just my opinion, it's supported by one of our most ebike experienced members who found the Tonaros he tried underpowered.
.

 

[tillson]

The problem with all those panasonic and Bosch drive bikes and many of the other expensive ones is that they don't have throttles. Sometimes your legs will get tired and without a throttle, you'll have to get off and wait.

Initially I thought exactly the same but, we don't know Lynne's capabilities. It may be the case that one of the high end crank drive systems would suit her perfectly and I didn't want to stop her from giving them consideration.

Given her medical condition, I would say that an extended test ride / period is essential. However, this may prove to be a problem. 50C did once offer to lend me a bike over a weekend, so they may do the same for Lynne. I still don't like them though.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Dave.I respect your story about the Woosh dealer and for sure there are some good dealers out there but the problem with e-bikes is that they are relatively expensive stock,the average cost price to a dealer of a mid range e-bike is £500 plus.
In Holland if you go to a big bike retailer they will have a choice of 50 plus bike types and so its possible to get close to the perfect bike for an individual customer but our lower volume in the UK means that each dealer cannot stock that choice and inevitably he will try and make fit a stock bike even if it is the not ideal bike. Does anybody know a retailer who has a good selection of stock bikes from different importers in the UK?,my experience is most have only a few bikes and will order up another sample but only against a firm order.
In an ideal world what is needed is a chain of e-bike dealers who are multi franchised,have at least one example of each bike style-the lack of such a chain is one of the reasons why the e-bike is not more popular in the UK. Kudos is trying to establish such a chain but money is tight with the dealers and they cannot,in many cases,afford the stock. We have a performance range out soon,sort of Bradley Wiggins style with motors and an inexpensive crank drive bike,without question that will give us the widest range of e-bikes in the UK but its still not the complete answer-I looked at stocking the KTM range,I think they are fantastic bikes,the Macina Bold at about £1800 is good value but the KTM importer is refusing to stock bikes,every bike is delivered to order,that does not allow customers to try before they buy,so I cannot see that working.
I ramble on but where could you suggest Lynne goes to experience a genuine range of multi franchised stock bikes?
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[funkylyn]

The Tonaro doesn't begin to compare in power terms, not just my opinion, it's supported by one of our most ebike experienced members who found the Tonaros he tried underpowered.
.

Now, come on Flecc , be fair .....it all depends on what you are used to having between your legs......and if that just happens to be an illegally high powered motor...... then most bikes would feel underpowered


Lynda

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Tonaro doesn't begin to compare in power terms, not just my opinion, it's supported by one of our most ebike experienced members who found the Tonaros he tried underpowered.
.

It can't be underpowered if Lynda rides one. QED. Sorry Lynda.

Edit: Just in case you get the wrong idea: What I mean is that Lynda's dainty legs woulnd't be able to generate much power.

Am I digging myself in deeper?

Sorry again Lynda. I'll buy you a drink or too next time we meet, which I hope will be soon.

 

[flecc]

Now, come on Flecc , be fair .....it all depends on what you are used to having between your legs......and if that just happens to be an illegally high powered motor...... then most bikes would feel underpowered

Lynda

I'm being fair Lynda and only speaking of legal e-bikes. I've never owned an illegal one and neither has the person who made that remark, despite him having owned more e-bikes that anyone else I've ever known. The Tonaro bikes are rather like the earlier Panasonic units, not very powerful but capable because they use that limited power through the gears. They are unlikely to suit Lynne since they do need quite a good rider input as well, as you've said yourself.

Whether we like a bike or not, it's important to be truthful to others about them. Compared to today's clutch of crank drives, the Tonaro is the lowest powered of the lot. The later Panasonics, the Impulse unit, the Daum unit that was derived from, and the Bosch are more powerful and capable.

 

[funkylyn]

It can't be underpowered if Lynda rides one. QED. Sorry Lynda.

Fair comment Dave, I dont like anything under powered, including bikes.....and the Tonaro is certainly not underpowered.....for ME personally

It may not be a top of the range expensive bike like some but it does exactly what it says on the tin and will be much more than adequate for the majority of riders.

There are obviously other more powerful bikes on the market, but, like everything else, you pay your money and you take your choice !

You yourself have amazingly powerful bikes that would no doubt knock the Tonaro into touch, but then you are admirably able to build exactly what you personally want from a bike.

Flecc.....your comment about them being underpowered is unfair, there are two sides to every story, including that one, if we are talking about the same person, and I am pretty sure we are, the motor on that persons 'bike of choice' for everyday cycling IS a bigger motor...... if however you have ridden one yourself and find it underpowered then thats fair comment.....you do seem to be a very fit man

My point is that anyone who is used to riding a much more powerful bike would find a lesser powered one lacking, but, I reiterate, for the vast majority of cyclists the Tonaro would be more than adequate, as would lots of other decent everyday type electric bikes.

As you say Flecc I would never advise anyone to buy a bike just because I liked it, in Lynnes case I feel like she might a. find a crank drive harder work with the pedalling effort needed on a long journey and b, might be better off having a throttle as back up......coupled with her desire for power and range that is why I recommended her to try Ezee.

I think that was fair comment and advice.

Lynda

( actually,thinking about it, in the circumstances....extremely fair comment and advice )

 

[funkylyn]

It can't be underpowered if Lynda rides one. QED. Sorry Lynda.

Edit: Just in case you get the wrong idea: What I mean is that Lynda's dainty legs woulnd't be able to generate much power.

Am I digging myself in deeper?

Sorry again Lynda. I'll buy you a drink or too next time we meet, which I hope will be soon.

Thin ice springs to mind Dave

Lynda

 

[Cyclezee]

I wonder if this would suit Lynne

 

[funkylyn]

I wonder if this would suit Lynne

View attachment 4102

Now THAT is below the b***** belt John as you well know

Lynda

 

[Cyclezee]

My wife quite likes this eZee Sprint with Anne Rosat artwork, but it doesn't match the curtains

Now if it had been by Antoni Gaudi, she would never be off it

If you want see more of Anne Rosat's designs you can see them here www.annerosat.ch - Accueil

 

[flecc]

My point is that anyone who is used to riding a much more powerful bike would find a lesser powered one lacking, but, I reiterate, for the vast majority of cyclists the Tonaro would be more than adequate, as would lots of other decent everyday type electric bikes

Lynda

The mistake you seem to be making Lynda is seeing anything other than praise for the Tonaro as criticism. I'm not criticising it, just rating it's power against the current opposition, and in that field it lower powered than the rest, a simple statement of fact.

The reason it's not a criticism is that lower power suits and is preferred by the many who want to retain as much as possible of the cycling element and avoid any hint of moped character. I can equally remark the Cytronex models and Nano-Brompton are low powered compared to the opposition, but again I'm not criticising those very fine e-bikes, just stating the facts of suitability for those who want that, while warning those who it won't suit.

For Lynne's circumstances the Tonaro is underpowered and heavy.