News: eZee Torq Trekking long distance test

[flecc]

Since I criticised the Li-ion battery in October 2006, they won't even answer an email from me, so I couldn't order direct if I wanted to Frank!

That date will also show you just how long this has been going on for.

In any case, it wouldn't be ethical for the manufacturer to bypass the appointed importer and agent, so I wouldn't ask it anyway.

I have been able to get an NiMh, it's the delays in getting one that is now part of the problem,the other part being a need for acceptance that the new bikes should come with NiMh as I've said, thus avoiding the need for buyers to buy an additional charger when the inevitable happens and they want to switch to NiMh.
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[frank9755]

Oh dear - yes, that is a bit of a problem!

It's not a question of ethics, more the terms of the commercial agreement between 50 Cycles and Ezee, which the end customer is not party to and therefore need not attempt to second guess. Given that there are customers that 50 Cycles is not supplying with something that Ezee, apparently, could get for them, Ezee could choose to step in. They could even pay a fee to 50 Cycles for doing so, if they felt they ought to under their agreement or to otherwise maintain goodwill. If I wanted an Ezee NiMH, I'd approach Ezee.

However I agree, if they are sulking and won't acknowledge your messages, it is hardly promising!

 

[Tiberius]

Same company Des, so virtually certain to be the same cells. The cut out voltage/current settings are unlikely to match another make, and the powerful eZee motor's very high current demand will still be permitted by the eZee controller, so failure is very likely.
.

The conclusion we came to in another thread was that the battery itself was not necessarily bad, but that it was not suited to the use eZee was putting it to. So, yes, taking a Synergie Lithium battery and using that is not a solution, but it is ever so interesting that the price is so much lower.

Nick

 

[flecc]

Some background

I thought a bit of background to this might be helpful.

The eZee bikes, including the newly introduced Torq, were very successful with NiMh, the Torq with that winning at Presteigne 2006. At about that time, the Li-ions were introduced and I bought a Torq midyear, buying it with two Li-ions, making me a very early adopter. A few weeks later I bought a Quando, that coming with NiMh at that time.

When the Li-ions started playing up, the fact that I had two made me aware that it wasn't a case of just one faulty battery. That, together with the faultless performance of the NiMh, gave me a unique view of the overall position at that time, since it was unlikely that anyone else would have this combination of bikes and batteries, using them intensively in a hilly area. Having realised that the manganese cathode was not up to the task, I raised that issue in October 2006 and suggested a solution, which led to the Chings ignoring me.

Most bikes with Li-ion were sold long after mine, most indeed this year, those going into easy territory would take longer to give trouble, and intermittent users in more difficult territory would also have a longer period before problems would surface. Therefore it's entirely understandable for both 50cycles and eZee to think the few early users like me who had trouble were either not helping the bike by putting in a fair share of the pedalling, or that with the newness of the technology, it was just some isolated batteries at fault.

So although the problem has been around for quite a while, it's only in the last quarter with many more batteries reaching critical ages that the true scale of it has been apparent. And that is why I want acceptance of the problem now that it's existence has become beyond doubt.

The past is just history, and I'm personally not worried about costs, I just want to see these bikes back with NiMh for the present and regaining their rightful position in the market place, up the top with the best, where they used to be, and able to perform unconditionally, regardless of territory or user.
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[ITSPETEINIT]

Happy relationship

Is there something, taking all the arguments into consideration, that would suggest that eZee Cycles and 50 Cycles are not the best of 'bed fellows' at this time.
I was mildly surprised that 50 Cycles had signed 'another' exclusive deal with Kalkhoff. Perhaps eZee were not protecting their back well enough. Exclusivity is a two-way street.
The ramifications of this state of affairs over the supply of batteries (NiMH and now Lithium) are intriguing.
Peter

 

[flecc]

Exclusivity is a two-way street.

Not so. I've often been in businesses which had exclusive distribution rights to more than one brand for an area or country.
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[WaiWonChing]

Dear all,
Considering the comprehensive drubbing of all things lithium on this and many other threads, do you believe the two year warranty on the Agattu lithium battery will stand up to scrutiny? I understand that the power system is compeletely different from that of the Ezee range, and Flecc has demonstrated greater compatibility. However, the paying customer can't help but worry about the reliability of such a critical part of the electric bike experence. Potentially, this could impact adversely (again) on 50 cycles as they may end up with more disgruntled customers chasing free replacement batteries. If there is any doubt about Lithium and the Agattu, should Kalkhoff consider transferring (or is that impossible or pointless?)

In relation to the Ezee issue, you've got to feel for 50 cycles who are trying their best to establish themeselves as market leaders in a highly volatile sector. They have to cope with a hell of a lot (logistics, difficult suppliers, language and cultural barriers, cash flow issues, risk management etc) and, so far, in my experience, they are doing a very good job indeed to raise quality, standards and the profile of this relatively new industry. However, I do agree that failure to respond effectively to customer demands, particularly from highly influential and well-respected customers (you know who you are!!) is commercial suicide. If the people want NIMh batteries that is what the company should deliver. I don't know if they have a local Chinese agent on the ground who could cut through the cultural and business BS and persuade the Ezee boss to get his finger out. Alternatively, could they outsource? Come on guys, sort it out.. You can do it! Listen to what the experts are telling you..
Tom
musicbooks

Dear Tom,

I was borned in Singapore and remained a British subject till 1965 at 15 years of age, and I finished my 'O level' in St. Andrew's School. I have been working for multinational companies originating in USA and Germany, with my last position as managing director for Asia Pacific for many years before I got out to establish my own business a decade ago. So there is no need for 50cycles for any chinese agent on the ground to cut the cultural barrier.

 

[HarryB]

Dear Tom,

I was borned in Singapore and remained a British subject till 1965 at 15 years of age, and I finished my 'O level' in St. Andrew's School. I have been working for multinational companies originating in USA and Germany, with my last position as managing director for Asia Pacific for many years before I got out to establish my own business a decade ago. So there is no need for 50cycles for any chinese agent on the ground to cut the cultural barrier.

Mr Ching,

A lot of us on this forum as desperately searching for reasons why your sole agent has been unable to supply what is an essential spare. That we have to replace the Li-ion battery at 130 charge cycles rather than the claimed 500 charge cycles is crazy but we could solve this problem by going back to NiMH batteries only to find we cannot get them - this is even more crazy. Do you think that this endeers me to your company or is it that you think I am alone? If it is the latter, I am afraid there is plenty of evidence that I am not and this will be a problem for your company in this country and the USA.

It is interesting that you came on this forum to defend your business reputation when all we asked for was for somebody to sort out the supply of batteries. So please pick up the phone, talk to 50 cycles, find out where the problem is and sort it out.

 

[flecc]

That we have to replace the Li-ion battery at 130 charge cycles rather than the claimed 500 charge cycles is crazy

Two of my Li-ions have failed sufficiently to become unusable at under 80 charges, and less that 60 full charge cycles.

Battery cost alone = 28 p per mile.

Battery cost on NiMh = less that 3.3 p per mile.

All new eZee bikes with NiMh please, immediately.
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[carpetbagger]

whilst surfing the net i think i have stumbled across a fix for ezee li-ions batteries
Forge Steel Fibreglass Handle Sledge Hammer 14lb - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys