Newbie wants to mod KTM eCross P for trails

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
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North Staffs
For the standard answers that seem to go on & on we could have code numbers like the have in the US police programmes.

We have an eight o three from a new member, ten four.


Or does that date me?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,208
30,608
For the standard answers that seem to go on & on we could have code numbers like the have in the US police programmes.

We have an eight o three from a new member, ten four.


Or does that date me?
Not as much as five-0 would!
.
 

Gringo

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 18, 2013
1,346
842
Northampton
Why's that? They're brilliant. They can save your life.
No no no I'm not critasizeing helmets, I see the logic and I'm a recent convert.
After a few hundred miles and I'm just starting to get use to it.
Not so last Saturday, my helmet was a bug trap and I had to stop several times to get the little critters out of my hair :eek:And my blinking winter plumage will have to go as well (beard).

If you hadn't guessed, I don't like bugs.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Ahh! You've got the wrong type of helmet. It seems that you've got the wasp trap type. BMX or snowboarding helmet is what you need. They have the added benefit of making you look like a dude instead of a tw@t.
 
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mfj197

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
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Ahh! You've got the wrong type of helmet. It seems that you've got the wasp trap type. BMX or snowboarding helmet is what you need. They have the added benefit of making you look like a dude instead of a tw@t.
Ugh, no! Cycling without cooling vents definitely a no-no. Sticky head? Okay, an ebike means you don't actually need to exert if you don't want to but at least look like you're riding a bike not a Vespa! :)
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
If the hat fits (in this case, one that makes you look like a tw@t), wear it! That's why I wear a dude's helmet. It fits so well.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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I have dude,s helmet, when I turn at work they say I look as if I'm about to be fired out of a cannon rather than arriving by bike.
 

D8ve

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 30, 2013
2,142
1,294
Bristol
Col grinds this axe time and time again.

He likes to scaremonger, then pat members on the head, telling them they don't understand.

You are not the first person to be patronized in this way,

As someone new to the forum, I believe you should have been spared the full wearisome telling off.

But what I think doesn't matter, and the trade members - including KTM - pay the forum's bills and can make useful contributions.

Their posts just need to be seen for what they are, hopelessly biased and aimed solely at self promotion.
I think Col has a point. Riding an un taxed, insured or MoT motorcycle is a serious issue. 99.99 times it is all ok but when something happens.
You could end up disabled with no comeback. Sued for all your money. Criminal record.
The definition of private land includes no public access. If you happent to own 15 miles of private track go on and enjoy otherwise you risk all.

My solicitors are quite happy to negotiate compensation for my smashed wrist. I cannot ride a diamond frame bike again. And have limited recovery in the joint. I am thankful my bike was completely legal(even pedal reflectors) when the 4*4 got me.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
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I think Col has a point. Riding an un taxed, insured or MoT motorcycle is a serious issue. 99.99 times it is all ok but when something happens.
You could end up disabled with no comeback. Sued for all your money. Criminal record.
The definition of private land includes no public access. If you happent to own 15 miles of private track go on and enjoy otherwise you risk all.

My solicitors are quite happy to negotiate compensation for my smashed wrist. I cannot ride a diamond frame bike again. And have limited recovery in the joint. I am thankful my bike was completely legal(even pedal reflectors) when the 4*4 got me.
The OP clearly grasps all that, but Col has to tell him again, and again, and again.

Which to anyone, let alone a new member, is ignorant and patronising.

Do you honestly think Col gives a stuff if some punter gets into bother over a whizzy ebike?

Get real.

All he's bothered about is flogging more KTMs.
 
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dinger19

Pedelecer
Jun 30, 2014
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See what I mean. I'm a real dude in that photo.
This is what happens if you put on a cycle helmet:

Lets have a new thread titled helmet selfie to see if your a cool dude or a twat........;)
 

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
1,384
North Staffs
Which is the cooler, WW2 German helmet or the WW1 with the point on top?
 
Col grinds this axe time and time again.

He likes to scaremonger, then pat members on the head, telling them they don't understand.

The OP clearly grasps all that, but Col has to tell him again, and again, and again.

Which to anyone, let alone a new member, is ignorant and patronising.

Do you honestly think Col gives a stuff if some punter gets into bother over a whizzy ebike?

Get real.

All he's bothered about is flogging more KTMs.
Right, I was going to leave this thread, as I'd made my point. But you RobF are clearly not seeing WHY I'm making this point, so I'll say it clearly now.

Its not to sell more KTMs, we're almost certainly selling less because of our stance on this.

The reasons are two fold.

1) We've got strong legal advice that if a KTM is involved in a accident and its been de-restricted or is indeed a stock sPedelec being used in the UK the liability can pass up the supply chain. So we have to be clear at every opportunity on our stance. This is for our benefit clearly, but also our dealers and ultimately our customers. I can't see why you have a problem with this? If you want to take the risk thats fine, but don't complain when someone explains that risk to others who ask.

The other one is one that you really don't seem to appreciate.

2) I'm a mountain biker, have been for 25 years and I've ridden and raced all over the world. I've seen the access problems come and go, and I've seen the growth of the trail centres in this country, from the start. I'm also passionate about the position of eBikes in the market and how they can give access to people who wouldn't normally be able and give enjoyment to others.

The reason I'm so angry when people think its ok to take dongled bikes into the woods is because its illegal for a reason, and they are spoiling it for everyone.

An example from just yesterday for you. Haibike were trying to do their eBike demo day at Cannock Chase, but because of the problems with eBikes there, the Foresty wouldn't let them. Now I've spoken to the shop in the forest and the problem is dongled bikes. So illegal bikes are going to cause all eBikes to be banned from that forest shortly we suspect. Which isn't good for anyone.

There is a growing animosity in the off road cycling world to eBikes and people riding them at trail centres etc etc. What I'm concerned about is that in 2 years, eBikes will be banned from everywhere and this will effect the chances we all have to ride and sell bikes.

I hope that makes things clear RobF and you can stop thinking that us limiting our sales is somehow a massive marketing strategy by us.
 
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RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
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Col,

Taking road use first.

You like your motorbikes, the speed limit is 70mph, there are dozens of motorbikes that will do way more than that.

Are the suppliers/manufacturers of those running scared because liability for a crash could pass up the chain?

Take your lawyers advice by all means, they have certainly taken you for a good fee.

But do not expect the rest of us to swallow it.

The animosity towards ebkes by some user of trails is, I think, a blanket dislike and not related solely to dongled bikes.

If you read Eddie PJ's posts, he has no problems taking part in organised events and gets admiring comments about his KTM from other riders.

You can't tell me any of those people have a clue whether a KTM is legal or or not.

I, like you, have heard of general negativity, so am surprised by Eddie's apparently positive experiences.

Equally, I'm surprised the people in the shop at Cannock are able to draw the distinction between a dongled Haibike and a non-dongled one.

And are they really saying that of the handful of ebikes using Cannock, they have identified dongled Haibikes as causing a problem?
 
oh my RobF

you say I should stop trying to educate people and thats its patronising, but then come up with things like this, that show you don't understand the law, liabilty of even my argument and frustration.

Col,

Taking road use first.

You like your motorbikes, the speed limit is 70mph, there are dozens of motorbikes that will do way more than that.

Are the suppliers/manufacturers of those running scared because liability for a crash could pass up the chain?

Take your lawyers advice by all means, they have certainly taken you for a good fee.

But do not expect the rest of us to swallow it.
You do realise a motorbike is road legal, yes? A dongle'd eBike is not, and its not CE certified as a safe product. There is a massive difference. If you want to use the motorbike analogy, you need to be comparing eBikes to MotorCross bikes... ie not road legal. But even riding a crosser on the road is better than an illegal eBike, because at least the crosser is CE certified as a safe product for use in the UK.

Speed is totally irrelevant to this discussion.

The animosity towards ebkes by some user of trails is, I think, a blanket dislike and not related solely to dongled bikes.

If you read Eddie PJ's posts, he has no problems taking part in organised events and gets admiring comments about his KTM from other riders.

You can't tell me any of those people have a clue whether a KTM is legal or or not.

I, like you, have heard of general negativity, so am surprised by Eddie's apparently positive experiences.

Equally, I'm surprised the people in the shop at Cannock are able to draw the distinction between a dongled Haibike and a non-dongled one.

And are they really saying that of the handful of ebikes using Cannock, they have identified dongled Haibikes as causing a problem?
There is a lot of "I think" and other things in this statement, that I'm afraid simple don't add up. EddiePJ gets such positive comments because he doesn't blast past people at high speed on an illegally fast bike.

The problems at Cannock are caused by people going faster than normal bikes, which is generally only possible on dongled bikes.

So yes, the guys at Cannock do know the difference. I sold them 2 KTM's yesterday and we had a good chat about Haibike and the problems they have there with people riding dongled ones on the public access trails.

I hope that clears up the reasons for my concern and we can all move on??
 
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EddiePJ

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Jul 7, 2013
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To add my bit to this as my name has been mentioned, the main difference with my experience at organised events, is that as Col has indicated, I go out of my way to be respectful to others taking part in the events, and hills aside, I always ensure that I am riding at a comparative pace to regular mtb riders, will frequently even hang back slightly, and use no assist at all when possible.
In respect of hills, I use as little assistance as possible, and again try not to ride at a speed that will draw negative attention. If I'm riding with another mtb rider, I don't ever find that I need more than eco mode, and it's fairly rare that I'd use tour mode, let alone sport or turbo.
I'm not saying that any riders of bikes fitted with dongles wouldn't do the same, but what is the purpose of a dongle, if it isn't to create a bike that is free to travel at a faster rate.
To put it into some kind of perspective, I can get between 35-40 miles out of a battery charge at an event, and as SRS will testify, I have arrived back with half of the battery level remaining. If I ride on my own around here, I can struggle to get 20 miles from a single battery charge. So my use of pedal assist is far less at organised events.
At an event that William Tell happened to be at on his Haibike last year, he was happy to use sport and turbo for the ride and used two batteries for the ride. That was the same event that I returned after having only used half of one battery. This example of Williams use, is purely to show how much effort that I am putting in with the riding, rather than just letting the bike do all of the work, and the associated possibility of the e-mtb advantage being pronounced more than it needs to be.

I do fear and know from having spent time talking to event organisers that my days are potentially numbered. The sole reason being bikes fitted with dongles, or the possibility of. The financial and legal risk that event organisers face because of dongles, or the possibility of dongles being fitted, is too great for them to ignore. :(

I know that sooner or later, I am going to be told no more riding. As it is already, I try to loose myself in the middle of the group to avoid attention, and pretty much hide. It shouldn't be like that.

I have also just been given sole access rights to 500 acres of privately owned woodland, that has no public access rights/no rights of way what so ever and is fully fenced in. I'm also in negotiation to gain permission to use a further 500 acres next door to this land, and again it has no public rights of way or permitted access. Both sites are set either side of a valley, and could be considered perfect for a bike with a dongle.
This however holds zero interest to me, as I just don't see the point, or even the fascination of using a bike fitted with a dongle, or an s-pedelec in an off road situation. You might just as well be riding a motorbike.

I can't say that I feel the same on the road though, and find the cut off point quite annoying at times. But that is just me being lazy, and I just remind myself to be grateful for any assistance. :)
 
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D

Deleted member 4366

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Don't forget that dongles don't add any more power. They only release the speed limit. I can't believe that you would get that extra speed when riding off-road, so it would make no difference whether a bike were dongled or not. Therefore, to me, the stories above don't hold water.
 

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