New to all this! About to get an e-bike and insurance

[OutRun]

Hi everyone!!

Been a mountain biker for years but I'm thinking about geting my first e-bike that I can use for commuting and general journeys instead of using Uber or my car etc. What's the score with insurance? Is it likely to rocket in the future etc? Has everyone got it and is it essential?

I found this site that has the main insurers grouped which is useful: https://www.e-bikeinsurance.co.uk/

Regarding my e-bike, is it better to buy it from a store or online? Any recommendations for online stores and for local ones in the north of England?

Plus is servicing an issue or are they reliable?

Thanks everyone for your replies in advance!

 

[sjpt]

A legal pedalec must satisfy 250w rated max power, 15.5mh max assisted speed, must pedal to get assistance.

If you have one of those it counts as a regular bike, you can ride it where you would ride a bike (bridleways etc), no need for insurance, registration, helmet, license. etc. CTC or similar insurance will cover you for third party.
You may want additional insurance for theft etc; may be a bit more than for a regular bike but similar.

Once you leave the legal pedalec territory you do need the same things as for a moped; helmet, tax, insurance, registration etc. The big difference from a normal moped is that the insurance is almost impossible to come by.
~~~
Generally, ebikes service is the same as for bikes; very little to do on the electrics. Most are very reliable.
If you go for many branded bikes they will have proprietary electric systems; parts if needed, servicing and spare batteries will all have premium prices. Also there is a risk of non-availability, especially for more custom items such as batteries to fit in the downtube.

Woosh (https://wooshbikes.co.uk/) and Wisper (https://wisperbikes.com/) are two highly recommended suppliers. Woosh are mail order or Southend only, Wisper have local dealers. Their bikes mostly have quality generic Chinese parts so that any replacement needed is relatively cheap. You may have difficulty getting service, a lot of shops won't touch ebikes at all, or at least not ones they haven't sold you, even for the servicing aspects that have nothing to do with the electrics. Not a problem if you do your own servicing anyway.

~~~
Our personal experience. We have a solo Raleigh (Motus step through hub gears) with Bosch system. We got it 2nd hand 6 years ago, so it's 8 years total. We just replaced the battery which wasn't too exorbitant in a Merlin deal. It's never had any servicing of the electric bits and is still going fine. Some irritations with badly designed Bosch connections to the battery and to the display. The main irritation is that the Magura rim brakes are really awkward to deal with. I still probably wouldn't replace it with another Bosch system bike, because of the cost it would have if it ever did go wrong.

Also a tandem with a front wheel conversion from Woosh. No issues over 6 years. The motor is a bit weak for a tandem but still very helpful on the hills; there weren't any more powerful legal ones available when we bought it.

We've got third party insurance through Cycling UK membership, and taken the risk of no theft or damage insurance.

 

[thelarkbox]

Insurers care if the motor is rated 250w or less and if the speed is limited to 15.5mph.
(a kit conversion bike s insurance value is the original bikes replacement cost + cost of the conversion kit, and if professionally fitted any receipted fitting costs too perhaps?)

Best VFM is a diy conversion kit on a suitable donor cycle, Comfy to ride with GOOD BRAKES.

fitting a kit is basically the same as a long winded rear tyre exchange.. the long winded is the cable tidying and sensor fitting (pedals/brakes) not a difficult job if changing a tyre is do-able.

Off the shelf bikes mainly come with closed proprietary control systems, meaning either a reliance on regular services at a cost to maintain warranties or little or no after sales/service options or Super expensive prices for spares..

The standard generic 'amazon special £500 ebike' is probably better equipped than your 2-3k branded bike as if/when anything needs replacing (pas sensor/battery etc..) its a no hassle ebay, etc purchase and not a dealer giving you the sharp intake of breath and head shake..

Some sellers Woosh Wisper, for example do sell ebikes with longevity and after sales service at a reasonable cost in mind.


And be mindful that any bike you look at that has battery communication as a 'feature' DONT TOUCH IT!! thats manufacturer speak for captive market and is only thgere to stop you using quality communication free batteries with your bike and keep you buying 'special batteries at 2x 3x or more than reasonable. ..

So if at all diy.. look at conversion kits, fwiw my yosepower kit well over a year old now still brings a smile to my face when crowning a hill i would be crawling if not walking up without the motor..

but if want an off the shelf bike Woosh and Wisper are 2 sellers of quality bikes with long life/service expectation.

Also when first looking at ebikes virtually everything i read gave me the impression that mid drive bikes were far superior to wheel hub drive bikes, which has some truth to it if demanding extreme performance but for 90%+ of casual on track/road cyclists the bullet proof reliability of hub motors makes them the superior option imho.

 

[crazymaster]

good gps system, alarm and a lock is much better than insurance i think...

actually i was searching for insurance ages ago when i started my ebike rental company in London, but everyone rejected me because it too dangerous - when they heared my customers are delivery riders -nobody wanted to help... thats why i use gps+alarm+airtag+tile and its nearly impossibe the bike to not be recovered if stolen

 

[guerney]

The daughter of someone I know was robbed of her bike at knifepoint, a couple of months ago. £5k bike of some sort. The thieves couldn't locate the Airtag hidden in this Muc-off Stealth Tubeless Tag Holder.

Stealth Tubeless Tag Holder

Protect your pride and joy! The Muc-Off Tubeless Tag Holder offers a discreet way to install a tracker inside your rear tubeless bicycle tyre in conjunction with our all of our Tubeless & Big Bore Valves, meaning you can track down your bike in the event of theft and can locate it using the Find...

muc-off.com

Her dad tracked the bike for days, kept calling the cops out to houses, as the bike was moved through a series. Having failed to find the tracker, the thieves eventually dumped the bike in an alleyway. He lost track at one point because there were no Apple devices nearby, but luckily spotted the bike being ridden after asking people if they'd seen the bike, in the area where he'd lost track. His daughter was too traumatised to ride it, so he sold the bike. His experience got me actually considering buying a JesusPhone/crApple, but they have a diminishing market share. It'd be wonderful if there were as good or better Airtag-like products used as widely, for the more ubiquitous Android gizmos, and not just Samsung.

I'm never without this:

 

[OutRun]

Thanks for the very informative replies everyone! Really good information and advice. I'll take all of this into account when decision making...

 

[OutRun]

'Insurers care if the motor is rated 250w or less and if the speed is limited to 15.5mph'.

Hi thelarkbox

Do you mean e-bike insurance companies would prefer it to be less than 250w and no faster than 15.5mph? Will they not insure e-bikes that are more powerful?

Thanks

 

[thelarkbox]

'Insurers care if the motor is rated 250w or less and if the speed is limited to 15.5mph'.

Hi thelarkbox

Do you mean e-bike insurance companies would prefer it to be less than 250w and no faster than 15.5mph? Will they not insure e-bikes that are more powerful?

Thanks

Just the same as with car insurance, if your vehicle is not in accordance with the regs mot, tax with cars,, any insurance is null and void. with ebikes they NEED to conform with EN19154 the 2 key points being a motor rated 250w or less and a cap on motor assistance at 15.5 mph or 25kmh. Also included is a '48v' max battery voltage.......

Now a 250w rated motor can be run with upto 1000w or more power perfectly legally with a suitable battery and controller but unless your in north Wales or Cornwall type hilly terrain its probably not needed..

 

[Ocsid]

The legality is based on the nebulous term "Continuous rated power", which is not the maximum power, this can and will be higher, sometimes significantly. It is also simply what the maker decides to rate it at, not a technically defined characteristic, so "very" open ended.
So, even legal bikes are likely to be more powerful when needed.
I very much doubt any insurer will knowingly insure a bike that is illegal, if insuring it for road/ public access areas as the OP intends, but never tried myself.

 

[jamesporritt]

'Insurers care if the motor is rated 250w or less and if the speed is limited to 15.5mph'.

Hi thelarkbox

Do you mean e-bike insurance companies would prefer it to be less than 250w and no faster than 15.5mph? Will they not insure e-bikes that are more powerful?

Thanks

Is this your bike?

Sur-Ron - Light Bee X(LBX)

High Performance. Visual Perfection. The Light Bee X encompasses everything you could ever want in an electric bike. Don't accept imitations.

sur-ron.co.uk

 

[saneagle]

'Insurers care if the motor is rated 250w or less and if the speed is limited to 15.5mph'.

Hi thelarkbox

Do you mean e-bike insurance companies would prefer it to be less than 250w and no faster than 15.5mph? Will they not insure e-bikes that are more powerful?

Thanks

All you need to worry about is that the manufacturer or trade seller lists the bike as 250w. In other words, if they list it as 350w, 500w, 750w, 1000w or anything more, you can't insure it nor ride it legally.

 

[OutRun]

Thanks everyone again, great info. Out of interest, are there a lot of >250w e-bikes being sold or are the majority trying to stick to 250w max? Sometimes in the early lifecycle of products, it's like the wild west, before regulations and legalities start to settle the market...

 

[saneagle]

Thanks everyone again, great info. Out of interest, are there a lot of >250w e-bikes being sold or are the majority trying to stick to 250w max? Sometimes in the early lifecycle of products, it's like the wild west, before regulations and legalities start to settle the market...

10 years ago, you could ride whatever you wanted without getting caught, but the police have gradually become more and more educated to the point that they've done a few targeted spot checks and seized a load of bikes. I wouldn't risk it these days. There's no limit to the power you can get from a 250w motor so you don't need an illegal one. It's just the speed which is limiting, and that's too easy for any policeman to check.

 

[sjpt]

Thanks everyone again, great info. Out of interest, are there a lot of >250w e-bikes being sold or are the majority trying to stick to 250w max? Sometimes in the early lifecycle of products, it's like the wild west, before regulations and legalities start to settle the market...

I think the majority are keeping to the 250w rated max, especially if you buy from a respectable retailor. If you look on ebay you'll still find plenty that don't, even with their crackdown. Also, lots of kits that are not in the 250w territory.

Around here they are mostly legal, but with several deliverers and a few others with clearly illegal ones. I can't put a proportion value on that; I'd be interested too.

 

[sjpt]

There may also be quite a few that are technically illegal on some minor point, but are ridden sensibly and you'd never notice the illegality.

 

[Az.]

a few others with clearly illegal

I think most people buy illegal bikes due to ignorance. They just don't know that legal 250W rated motor might be more powerful than 500W rated one.

 

[Fatgadget]

The legality is based on the nebulous term "Continuous rated power", which is not the maximum power, this can and will be higher, sometimes significantly. It is also simply what the maker decides to rate it at, not a technically defined characteristic, so "very" open ended.
So, even legal bikes are likely to be more powerful when needed.
I very much doubt any insurer will knowingly insure a bike that is illegal, if insuring it for road/ public access areas as the OP intends, but never tried myself.

In Holland they now have portable rolling roads to check e-bike/scooter power outputs. Anything over the limit it's an instant 300 Euro fine.......Expect that upon these shores any time soon. Matter of fact in central London those Rickshaw pedicabs are being targeted by the Met. Siezed and crushed apparently.

 

[saneagle]

In Holland they now have portable rolling roads to check e-bike/scooter power outputs. Anything over the limit it's an instant 300 Euro fine.......Expect that upon these shores any time soon. Matter of fact in central London those Rickshaw pedicabs are being targeted by the Met. Siezed and crushed apparently.

There is no limit to go over. The Heinzmann system is certified legal, and it makes over 2kw output power.

A friend of mine had his fleet of rickshaws seized in London after they measured the power from the battery with one of those C-clamp type current measuring devices. I wrote a letter to the police on his behalf about what the law is. They immediately unseized them and wrote a letter of apology. His Chinese motors, labelled as 250w, could give over 2kw output power.

 

[Fatgadget]

There is no limit to go over. The Heinzmann system is certified legal, and it makes over 2kw output power.

A friend of mine had his fleet of rickshaws seized in London. I wrote a letter to the police on his behalf about what the law is. They immediately unseized them and wrote a letter of apology. Those Chinese motors, labelled as 250w, could give over 2kw output power.

Ironic isn't it just!...I have an ancient 250W (labelled) motor on my bike that has been happily taking all of half a killowatt I been throwing at it the past 5 years or so! What PC Plod have been doing of late though; is targeting those humongous unbranded motors AND equally huge battery packs.....incidentally, I might well know your friend with Rickshaws!...Which part of London?...I'm based in Camden.

 

[thelarkbox]

This could be anther 'tv detector van' just for show and to be seen doing something, while non en19154 legislation is used to confiscate and enforce like the 'insurance requirements' over here..