New Super Light Tongxin Motor Design/Kit

[jhruk]

Hi Jerry

Have you already put an order in ? I'd be really keen to chip into it and add a motor/contoller/throttle for myself. Would this makes things cheaper for you/us in terms of shipping ? Also you have the expertise in dealing with China which I dont at all so I'm clearly keen to leverage that !

Obviously I compleltey undertand if you'd rather not do this with random forum posters..... but thought I may as well ask. Don't ask , don't get and all that

Me too - Couldn't put it better

Please do PM me if keen and we can go from there

ditto

 

[jerrysimon]

Guys it pretty easy to order these yourself. I don't really want to order more than two at a time. I have provided all the details in the thread where I showed you that these people are reliable.

Just email sales@h9.com.cn. The person I deal with is called Cici. Very helpful and provides a quote with pictures of what you are ordering.

Note it can take between 4-6 weeks to come if you want the smaller sized motors as they tend to manufacture to order.

Someone already pmed me and I have offered to give one of my two ordered to him already. If he does not want it I will then offer it to each of you in turn in order that your posted the request.

Note if you are ordering order two. There is no difference in postage cost and as you will have no guarantee (its not worth sending it back) it will cover you should the first one fails.

Alternatively I haven't tried one, but the Cute Q85 may be a more reliable buy if you are looking for a narrow width readily avaialble motor. These are sold by BMS battery.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Pedalo]

In case anyone's interested and doesn't want the hassle of ordering from China, I'm selling off my ebrompton kit. See the classifieds forum for details.

 

[KirstinS]

Thanks Jerry - and fair enough , you've made it as easy as possible for the rest of us to follow in your footsteps

Still looks like the Jerry Simpson Tongxin Import Co. would have quite a few customers

 

[jerrysimon]

No problem. I would not be interested in importing and selling these motors given that others have tried and never made it worth while in terms of returns. These motors have to be treated with care and if abused in any way fail. Sometimes they just fail for the heck of it anyway!

I am ordering two, so if the person that said he wanted one does not reply, I will offer one to either of you. This will be with the caveat that it is supplied new as is with no warranty or return and I will sell it at cost including any p&p and duty/import tax charges.

Regards

Jerry

 

[laroche]

Hi everybody! I'm new here. There's bit of background about me on the Introduce Yourself forum.

DHL delivered two Goldant motors from keyde.com this morning. Here's a few details and impressions.

Type: 'with drive and control' (ie the control circuitry is in the side of the motor); 36v; 160RPM; black; 32H (you can request any number of spoke holes, not just the 36 as in the website pics); cables, connectors, sensor etc; no battery (too expensive); no wheel; there were no instructions or wiring diagram (more about that later)

Price: $290 each including delivery (it's $1000 with the smallest battery and charger; extra batteries are $500 each); no VAT or import duties were applied

Ordering/delivery: no hassles; Sky Zhang at keyde replies promptly and speaks fluent courtesy; took a week once the spoke holes were drilled; DHL delivered

Packaging: in purpose-cut polystyrene blocks; excellent

Weight: motor/control circuitry - 1.6kg; cables, connectors, sensor, handlebar control - 150gm; nuts and washers for motor - 80gm; all weights approximate (old scales)

Impressions

The motor looks solidly built (eg meaty flanges for spokes) and seems well finished. No obvious water intrusion issues. It's really really small! A rear wheel version dressed with a Sturmey Archer sticker and an eight speed shifter on the handlebars would produce a near total stealth solution.

But the motor's nano credentials are as nothing compared with the rest of the kit. It's microscopic! It took me 5 minutes to convince myself it was all there. The handlebar control could be comfortably concealed inside a gear shifter. You will need either perfect eyesight or a magnifying glass to work out which socket joins to which plug (no diagram or instructions). The main connector (to the motor) is very small for the number of wires it carries and there's no 'key' with which to orientate the plug and socket; instead, there are almost invisible arrows on both which must be lined up. Dimensional issues aside (the battery connection is quite beefy incidentally), the quality of the tackle seems very good and will probably prove watertight. But I won't be wanting to disconnect and reconnect those plugs too often.

The main mystery surrounds the pedal sensor. It doen't look like any I've seen before. The magnet disc looks straightforward, but I cannot fathom where the other bit is supposed to go. I do not possess a camera, but the sensor looks exactly like its photo on the keyde website. Where can an object of that shape possibly be intended to fit in the vicinity of the bottom bracket? No instructions! I shall email Ms Zhang about it.

Shoot questions and I'll do my best to answer.

Cheers!

 

[cwah]

Thanks for the feedback Laroche.

So no controller needed? It's integrated with the motor?

I'm wondering if there is any way to increase the RPM? I suppose at 260RPM on 16" wheel, the bike would be really slow (around 10 mph)

 

[laroche]

cwah

So far as I know, the available motor speeds are 160. 175, 190, 210, 230 and 260RPM. Mine's going in a 27" wheel so it has a theoretical top speed of 12.86mph with a 622-32 tyre (bet it'll do more like 14mph though; bikes with this firm's motors always seem to go faster than their supposed to). In a 16" wheel (including tyre) the 260RPM version should do 12.38mph, but AtoB got 14mph from a Brompton fitted with a 260RPM Tongxin.

I stuck to the minimum RPM partly because I didn't fancy over-cooking such a titchy motor!

 

[jerrysimon]

laroche

Very interesting and thanks for the update. I had kinda given up after a few enquiries seemed to have produce little response.

The motors are far from cheap, but I guess that comes with the fact they seem to be next generation in terms of stealth, size and weight.

I would love to see some pictures, also what are the width of the motors ?

PS Welcome to the forum.

PPS I just saw your quote "I do not possess a camera"

Regards

Jerry

 

[laroche]

Jerry

My motors are the standard 100m wide but 80mm versions are available (apparently for a 'roller' brake, whatever that is!), though not with the control circuitry in the motor.

I agree about the price; it does mark a bit of a hike. But there is a distinct feel of quality to this kit and, if it turns out as good as the Tongxin on my Cytronex (still going well after 3 1/2 years), I shall have no complaints - apart from the lack of instructions(!). Can't help thinking the fingerprints of Mark Searles are on the design of this kit.

First job is to get one into a wheel and, without diagrams/instructions (grumble, grumble), I shall have to calliper my way to the correct spoke lengths!

Thanks for the welcome!

Cheers!

 

[cwah]

Thanks Laroche.

I'm also thinking about a lightweight bike.

But damn 12 mph would kill me.. Too bad it's so restricted.

 

[amigafan2003]

cwah

So far as I know, the available motor speeds are 160. 175, 190, 210, 230 and 260RPM. Mine's going in a 27" wheel so it has a theoretical top speed of 12.86mph with a 622-32 tyre (bet it'll do more like 14mph though; bikes with this firm's motors always seem to go faster than their supposed to). In a 16" wheel (including tyre) the 260RPM version should do 12.38mph, but AtoB got 14mph from a Brompton fitted with a 260RPM Tongxin.

I stuck to the minimum RPM partly because I didn't fancy over-cooking such a titchy motor!

A 260rpm motor (assuming it's a 36v motor) in a 700cc wheel should do 23.65mph.

Up the volts to 48v and it should be capable of 31mph - but the amps required to do 31mph would overheat the little motor in no time.

I have a 190rpm/36v rated Tongxin in a 700cc wheel running on a 63v batt and it tops out at around 24/25mph. Controller amps are limited to 9amps - it sees peaks of 560watts. I did try 12amps (750 watts) but the motor got a bit warm in the warm spell we had In March.

2500 miles so far - 1000 of them at 63v and the rest at 50v.

 

[cwah]

Yeah I agree with you.

The problem is that I'll use the motor on a 16 inch wheel. So at 260RPM it's around 12-13 mph.

And I can't really overvolt it as the controller is inside the motor and will be limited to 36V...

 

[laroche]

amigafan

My new motors are 36v and turn at 160RPM, the very slowest version, and considerably smaller than a traditional Tongxin (see my long post from yesterday for some details). The controller will apparently draw nearly 12 amps. At stated maximum power it operates at 35.73v, 11.89 amps, 425w and with a torque of 20Nm.

Yours sounds blistering quick! Compared to that, mines going to be a right old slow coach! But what I'm after with this build are lightness, simplicity and lively performance within legal speed limits. I'll get there in the end!

Cheers

 

[amigafan2003]

amigafan

My new motors are 36v and turn at 160RPM, the very slowest version, and considerably smaller than a traditional Tongxin (see my long post from yesterday for some details). The controller will apparently draw nearly 12 amps. At stated maximum power it operates at 35.73v, 11.89 amps, 425w and with a torque of 20Nm.

Yours sounds blistering quick! Compared to that, mines going to be a right old slow coach! But what I'm after with this build are lightness, simplicity and lively performance within legal speed limits. I'll get there in the end!

Cheers

Hey, if your's is smaller and lighter than a tongxin I could be tempted back down to pipe and slippers speed I think you need to borrow a camera off someone ;-)

I've got my eye on a road bike when my current bike lease ends.

 

[laroche]

amigafan

Pictures and details here

motor roller motor disc brake motor battery battery charger control sensor

Mine's the one in the top right picture. I make the weight 1.6kg - not 1.5kg as they claim. But the dimensions are correct; it really is 98mm diameter, flange tip to flange tip - and includes the control circuitry(!).The Tongxin is about 120mm diameter.

Pipe and slippers is about my kind of pace! I have already spotted a suitable coffee cup holder and yearn for someone to develop a lightweight aerodynamic refrigerator - perhaps the next logical step of electric bike development!

Cheers!

 

[jerrysimon]

Spurned on by Laroche and after numerour emails with Sky Zhang at Keyde.com (actually they are same manufactures of Tongxins) I have also bitten the bullet and ordered one. Again I can confirm that their communication is excellent.

I have ordered a 80mm V brake one which they do, but is not shown and similar to the roller brake version. I had the option of getting it drilled for 28h which would be perfect for the Brompton rim, but as I want to try it on a couple of bikes went for 36h instead.

Unfortuantely this smaller unit does not have the controller built in, but they claim it only weighs 1.4Kg! We will see lol

These units and controllers are supplied pedelec only.

After quite a few emails I established that they are in fact the same manufacture of Tongxin units and this is their next development. They also said that they may cease manufacture of the existing Tongxin motor units in a year or so.

Looking at the kit I have to wonder if this is in fact the planned kit that Cytronex intend to launch ?

I will report back later once I receive the motor. A bit of a gamble being a early adopter, but some of us had to take the hit for the forum


Regards

Jerry

 

[cwah]

Jerry, how much did you pay for the motor?

If the controller is not build in, maybe I can aim for 20mph with some overvoltage?

Thinking of maybe getting a lightweight version of my bike

 

[jerrysimon]

Cwah the motors varry in price depending which model you require. Costs where provided by Laroche a few posts back.

At this stage I could not comment on overvolting the motor and don't intend to do this myself. I am more that happy with 15 MPH of assistance.

Given that past experience with overvolting Tongxins has proved risky, I suspect the same will apply here.

Regards

Jerry

 

[cwah]

Ok thanks Jerry, I've read 290$ for the motor only.

Going to ask them directly if the motor can go a little bit faster.