New build, wheel loses drive and screeches

[Matthew Hutchinson]

Did you see my post?

Yeah seen thank you, I've started going through the different combinations, it will probably take me a couple of days so I will let you know how it's going as soon as it is done, I will keep an eye on the connector pins.


Not sure if this tells us anything but if I run with the sensors disconnected and the phase wires colour matched I get exactly the same problem.
Also if I lift the front wheel and test with everything colour coded it runs , it's only when there is weight on the trike that the problem persists.

I might change the phase wire bullet connectors for wagos while I test as the bullets are starting to feel a little loose, unless you can see any issues with doing that

 

[saneagle]

Yeah seen thank you, I've started going through the different combinations, it will probably take me a couple of days so I will let you know how it's going as soon as it is done, I will keep an eye on the connector pins.


Not sure if this tells us anything but if I run with the sensors disconnected and the phase wires colour matched I get exactly the same problem.
Also if I lift the front wheel and test with everything colour coded it runs , it's only when there is weight on the trike that the problem persists.

I might change the phase wire bullet connectors for wagos while I test as the bullets are starting to feel a little loose, unless you can see any issues with doing that

Wouldn't it make sense to check the green and blue on that connector first? Why is the blue connected to the green and the green to the blue?

There's no point in changing connectors. It's quicker, easier, cheaper and more reliable to solder the wires to each other.

Thinking about it again, there's no need to go through all the combinations because the KU65 should have automatic hall and phase wire sequence detection. It will switch to sensorless mode if it detects any problem with the hall wires. I reckon it's running in sensorless mode, which would give the symptoms you describe. AKM motors generally don't run well sensorless.

If it doesn't work when you swap the green and blue wires, you need to check the hall signals with a meter. Is your motor cable connector in ALL THE WAY TO THE LINE or is it not far enough like this one post#27?

(3) LCD S866 - not working - error E10? | Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

Wouldn't it make sense to check the green and blue on that connector first? Why is the blue connected to the green and the green to the blue?

There's no point in changing connectors. It's quicker, easier, cheaper and more reliable to solder the wires to each other.

Thinking about it again, there's no need to go through all the combinations because the KU65 should have automatic hall and phase wire sequence detection. It will switch to sensorless mode if it detects any problem with the hall wires. I reckon it's running in sensorless mode, which would give the symptoms you describe. AKM motors generally don't run well sensorless.

If it doesn't work when you swap the green and blue wires, you need to check the hall signals with a meter. Is your motor cable connector in ALL THE WAY TO THE LINE or is it not far enough like this one post#27?

(3) LCD S866 - not working - error E10? | Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community

I've changed the wheel and the lead since that photo so it's all in the correct order and yes the mirror cable is to the line, I'm going to take the controller off the trike later and I will lay it all out then you can see everything easily in case I'm missing anything obvious

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

So here it is atm plus picture of pins on wheel cable which all look good.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

If a connection issue , I'm wondering if it is a wrong phase /hall combo as their are 36 differing combo's.
On could try differing wire sequences to see if drive /pick up improves.
Three or four should work better then the rest.

Not all controllers and hubs sync correctly straight out of the box so wiring sequences may differ.


View attachment 61891

Can you tell me what the black arrows represent, does it mean short between those two contacts?

 

[matthewslack]

Can you tell me what the black arrows represent, does it mean short between those two contacts?

NO, don't short anything!

The big black double ended arrows in the diagram is highlighting the change that has been made from one test to the next.

It is a big complex diagram, which may seem overwhelming. If it does then simplify as follows.

There are 36 tests in total, because there are six possibilities for the phase wires, and six for the hall wires. 6 x 6 = 36. The diagram shows the six combinations for the halls across the top and below each, six identical columns for the six phase combinations.

If that is too much to look at, cover up five of the columns and ignore them.

Just do the six phase combo tests for one of the hall combos, and take a break! Then do the same for another hall combo, until you've done all six. Job done.

The diagram compresses all that info into a single page. Easy when you are familiar with it, not so much for a first timer.

 

[matthewslack]

Each 'block' in the big diagram is indicating which colours to connect: first test has direct colour matching, second needs yellow and green phase wires swapping over: disconnect yellow from yellow and green from green, and connect yellow to green and green to yellow.

And so on through the six combos. Then change hall wire combo and go again.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

Each 'block' in the big diagram is indicating which colours to connect: first test has direct colour matching, second needs yellow and green phase wires swapping over: disconnect yellow from yellow and green from green, and connect yellow to green and green to yellow.

And so on through the six combos. Then change hall wire combo and go again.

Lovely thanks for that it is very much appreciated

 

[matthewslack]

Lovely thanks for that it is very much appreciated

Let us know how it goes!

 

[saneagle]

Lovely thanks for that it is very much appreciated

You're probably wasting your time doing that with a KU95 controller. It doesn't matter how you arrange the wires and their connections because it'll change them to its own configuration. As I said before, it has automatic phase and hall wire detection and configuration. These controllers are exceptionally good at getting difficult motors to work. They can run with and without hall sensors.

One thing you can try: Disconnect the hall sensor connector and see what happens.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

You're probably wasting your time doing that with a KU95 controller. It doesn't matter how you arrange the wires and their connections because it'll change them to its own configuration. As I said before, it has automatic phase and hall wire detection and configuration. These controllers are exceptionally good at getting difficult motors to work. They can run with and without hall sensors.

One thing you can try: Disconnect the hall sensor connector and see what happens.

Yeah you are right tried them all, there was a couple of configurations that gave me the same results as standard wiring but the rest have no movement whatsoever. Disconnected the sensor wires completely and it's still exactly the same problem. I am finding if I accelerate gently I can get up to full speed but as soon as I try accelerate in a normal fashion it's back to the horrible noise and no drive, I'm debating on changing the phase wires for xt60s to see if that makes any difference but as always in open to anymore suggestions you may have.
The thing I'm struggling to get my head around is the that I have changed every component on there but have consistently had the same issue.
I know power is getting to the wheel and to the display and that the throttle is working too some degree at least and I'm using the battery daily so the issue must be in the controller, or am I missing something lol

 

[matthewslack]

So going right back to the beginning, you have two trikes, and two q128 motors, one old and the other brand new.

No matter what you do, the noise problem is there on one trike with either motor.

Can you make the noise happen on the other trike?

 

[saneagle]

Yeah you are right tried them all, there was a couple of configurations that gave me the same results as standard wiring but the rest have no movement whatsoever. Disconnected the sensor wires completely and it's still exactly the same problem. I am finding if I accelerate gently I can get up to full speed but as soon as I try accelerate in a normal fashion it's back to the horrible noise and no drive, I'm debating on changing the phase wires for xt60s to see if that makes any difference but as always in open to anymore suggestions you may have.
The thing I'm struggling to get my head around is the that I have changed every component on there but have consistently had the same issue.
I know power is getting to the wheel and to the display and that the throttle is working too some degree at least and I'm using the battery daily so the issue must be in the controller, or am I missing something lol

I think it's running in sensorless mode, logically, because something is wrong with the signals from the hall sensors. Did you check that all three are pulsing at the white connector? If not, you should do so.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

Tomorrow I'm going to change tire on the other trike so while I'm at that I will check if there is anything different on that one, I'm hesitant to start taking that one to bits and testing it with parts from the other because it's my only way of getting about, if I break that I'm trapped indoors till it's fixed. Also I'm very very limited in the amount of work I can do due to pain so it could weeks before I'm in a position to even start fixing it.
I've just remembered something that might help (apologies I have memory issues as well), 12 months ago I bought a new kit to fit in my original trike, motor, controller battery and all the other bits but when I changed everything over it wouldn't work although I can't remember if it was the same issue as this, I tried everything I could think of and eventually found that if I used the original 5 year old controller with the new battery and motor everything worked fine and has done ever since, I then promptly forgot all about it until just now. So I'm now wondering if they have changed something in the controller in the years between me buying them, I'm also quite pee'd off that I could completely forget about that, to the point of spending £150 on another kit.
Is there a cheap controller that will definitely do the job, I would rather spend a little more money to get it going then hurt myself spending hours trying to work this one out

 

[matthewslack]

Good luck.

 

[saneagle]

Tomorrow I'm going to change tire on the other trike so while I'm at that I will check if there is anything different on that one, I'm hesitant to start taking that one to bits and testing it with parts from the other because it's my only way of getting about, if I break that I'm trapped indoors till it's fixed. Also I'm very very limited in the amount of work I can do due to pain so it could weeks before I'm in a position to even start fixing it.
I've just remembered something that might help (apologies I have memory issues as well), 12 months ago I bought a new kit to fit in my original trike, motor, controller battery and all the other bits but when I changed everything over it wouldn't work although I can't remember if it was the same issue as this, I tried everything I could think of and eventually found that if I used the original 5 year old controller with the new battery and motor everything worked fine and has done ever since, I then promptly forgot all about it until just now. So I'm now wondering if they have changed something in the controller in the years between me buying them, I'm also quite pee'd off that I could completely forget about that, to the point of spending £150 on another kit.
Is there a cheap controller that will definitely do the job, I would rather spend a little more money to get it going then hurt myself spending hours trying to work this one out

The KU65/95 would be the first one I'd recommend for a difficult motor. They always work when others don't because they have the automatic recognition system in them.

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

Looked over my other trike and there is no difference in the sett up, i tested second wheel and throttle on that trike and they are all good so then I swapped out the phase bullet connectors for xt60s and guess what, no difference so it must be the controllers , are there no other controllers anyone can recommend.
Also I found a video of someone with the exact same problem and a controller replacement fixed it

 

[Matthew Hutchinson]

I'm going to take a punt and try a new controller I just have a couple of questions, are led810 displays protocol 2 and when a controller says suitable for 1000 watt is that an upto 1000 watt or are controllers wattage specific, I'm guessing it's up to 1000 watt but it would appreciate confirmation of that if any one can and is there anything else I need to look out for, thanks in advance for any help

 

[matthewslack]

Don't know about the protocol question.

Controllers should be marked with voltage and two current numbers: maximum continuous, and peak current. For example a typical cheap 36V 250W generic Chinese hub motor bike will have a controller marked about 7A continuous, about 15A peak.

You want the voltage times the continuous current rating to not be less than your motor needs, so in that example 36V x 7A = 252W, which is fine.