New bikes from eZee / 50Cycles

kajag

Just Joined
May 6, 2007
3
0
thanks for the answers! Will look into the brands you mentioned. We are giving it too him as a present, and we´re a lot of people, so I guess we can cope with a budget up to 1400 pounds. He is quite fit, and he want´s to stay that way, the only problem is the hills. He probably wants to exercise as much as possible on the flat, but the weight of the bike should prefferable be as low as possible to make it more fun to ride just as a bike.
the weather isn´t that bad over here:) I lived in Scotland for a few years, which was considerably worse when it came to rain.. so if it survives British weather it should do in Norway as well..
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
eZee have done quite a bit to improve the bad weather protection Leonardo, but it's still wise to consider improvement when adverse conditions are common. Sealing the ends of the cable join sleeving under the bottom bracket for example, and sealing the cable entry to the controller box. In each case a silicone rubber sealant (bath seal) is suitable for this.

The throttle mounted light switch is vulnerable, but that's instantly and very cheaply dealt with, see here.

Your suggestion of the BikeTech and similar is very sensible as that motor unit has always been very well protected, but as you say, at a price. They may not be as powerful as the eZee alternatives though, and require rather more effort up moderate hills which the eZee bikes can often climb unaided.
.
 

coops

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 18, 2007
1,225
1
Manchester U.K.
Hi Kajag, and a very warm welcome to pedelecs :) it is good here, isn't it :D

There are so many factors to consider in choosing an electric bike, I don't think you can do too much searching for information and you are absolutely right to be thorough in order to find a bike which best meets your father's needs, especially in the circumstances.

I hope you are getting some help in choosing at your end, and I very much hope you find a bike which makes your father happy :).

In case you missed it, and as further information for you, here is a handy comparison chart of various specifics of the ezee bikes, recently done by Tim Snaith, Director of 50cycles, Ezee dealers in the UK.

Some weatherproofing may be necessary whatever bike you go for (lots of simple & effective tips on Flecc's website), and NiMH tend to work better in the cold than Li, but NiMH are in short supply and hence expensive at the moment, and also a bit heavier than newer Li, so maybe a workaround is possible for the Li (battery warmers/cosies ?!) and they'll make a lighter bike too :) - others in colder climes (Finland, Canada for example) may be better placed to help there.

As for hillclimbing, I agree with what Ian said, and although it would be better to quantify the steepest slope the bike needs to handle, chances are if they're not super-steep (though I've seen some of the hills in Norway, so I wouldn't like to leave it to chance!!!) that the "excellent" hill-climb rated ezee bikes will cope easily enough and let the motor take most or even all of the strain, with the added advantage that by being motor-geared for 15mph/25kmh maximum speed they have excellent torque for climbing hills :).

One or two other pointers to help you choose: firstly, what style of bike does your father ride currently (or previously)? i.e. what style might he prefer? Bear in mind too that his ride style may change somewhat with an electric e.g. more upright & "relaxed" when less exertion is required.

Secondly, given that he may wish to pedal at times, especially on the flat, for flexibility of his use its a good idea to ensure the bike has gearing suitable for such pedalling i.e. a range of suitably spaced gears for at least the speeds he may want to ride at: that would ensure maximum efficiency of effort when pedalling & reduce unnecessary exertion/strain which may increase the heart rate ;).

Unfortunately, electric bikes are not exactly light by today's bike standards - not surprising given that even a light motor & battery can weigh around 7kg -but even at around 25kg or so they do a good job of minimising the weight (that's like an older steel bike weight, I think?) and you really don't notice the difference when riding at moderate speeds on the flat, only when you may have to lift, carry or manoeuvre it does it feel a bit heavier than some other bikes.

Its important to realise that much of the added weight is the battery and, although Li batteries weigh less than NiMH for instance, a reasonably powered motor will still require a rather hefty battery for reasonable range (e.g. 300kWh or so battery for around 15-25 miles 25-40km approx. depending on the bike) - especially if the rider is not pedalling too much.

I hope I'm not giving you info overload kajag :) but also remember that, whatever initial "powered" range you get with the bike will decrease over time, and depends on the battery type and quality, but expect it to fall at least to 80% of that in a few years for NiMH, Li more of an unknown but may fall faster than that: so try to allow for that when you buy, and look into spare or 2nd batteries if you need to - though at 4-5kg they are a bit heavy to carry around and a conservative maximum single battery range for bikes is around 20-25 miles (33-40km), significantly less in hilly terrain though - maybe only 25km.

Hope that all helps you choose :) any other questions please ask, and please let us know how you get on.

Best of luck in your choice Kajag, and best regards to your father who I wish continued happiness from cycling :) - if he loves cycling I'm quite sure he'll enjoy your gift :).

Stuart.
 
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coops

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 18, 2007
1,225
1
Manchester U.K.
P.S. & N.B. To reiterate what Ian said, the Torq is best suited for use on flat to moderate terrain with rider contribution an important and at times necessary part, and in its UK road legal 25km/h "restricted" form would also provide less power than the other options, and so may not be most suitable for your father who, it seems, would prefer to have confidence in the bike's capacity to climb any gradient necessary within reason unaided, while being free to choose to pedal or not on flatter terrain.

I hope that I've put that clearly & diplomatically :)
 

Leonardo

Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2006
207
0
www.jobike.it
Here is a video of a very small test of the first eZee bikes imported in Italy, done by their distributor. It regards Torq, Liv and Forza. While the first two are very well known by you, may be the part about the Forza could be of some interest. My feeling is that there is a real difference in quality of construction, power and noise… Any comment helping me to understand better the Forza is very welcome (I live in a town quite distant from the distributor, so I don’t know if I’ll have the chance to try this bicycle).
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Thanks for the video Leonardo, excellent.

The Torq uses the Quando motor which is intended for a 20" wheel, and it's therefore geared up by 40% in a 28" wheel. That means it's early acceleration up to 19 kph (12 mph) is before the point of maximum torque and therefore before the powerband starts. This is the wasteful part of the speed band which therefore creates more motor noise. Above 19 kph (12 mph) the noise diminishes and a properly running Quando motor is extremely quiet at full speed, 32 to 35 kph in the Torq.

The Liv uses a brush motor which produces more noise and that is fairly constant throughout it's performance, reducing a little at speed.

The video of the Forza and it's 24 kph climbs confirms for you the facts I advised you of previously and means the motor has lost nothing for your market, remaining very powerful, albeit having less range than the Sprint model using the original (for us) version of this same motor. The Forza uses higher than usual quality components and this is reflected in higher efficiency.
.
 
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Leonardo

Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2006
207
0
www.jobike.it
Thank you for the explanation flecc. Which range do you think it will have the Forza? 50cycles page doesn't help, because it says "Up to 30 miles" for the Forza but "Up to 20 miles without pedalling. 20-30 miles combining power and pedalling" for the Sprint...

I like the "Forza" - may be more than the "Forte" because I'm not an enthusiast of the drum brakes (!) and I guess that with that motor even if it happens to stop in the wrong gear it shouldn't be a big problem, so the hub gear is not as necessary as it is on my old twist - but I have a very "Southern Italy" question: the black colour of the battery... will it be a problem under the sun?
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Difficult to be exact Leonardo, but higher power doesn't come free, the laws of physics in this area being immutable. I don't know if your Forza version will have the "turbo" mode for the higher power, but with that in use it cannot have more range than the Sprint. In a given circumstance, I'd estimate nearly 70% of the Sprint range with turbo. Without it the Sprint might be matched or very slightly bettered, but for both range and performance, and I can't see it's range being appreciably exceeded by the Forza in the absence of a satisfactory technical explanation of how this is done.

What I do know is that US dealers warn those choosing between Torq and Fury (their Forza), that the Fury has appreciably less range than the Torq, which has fairly similar power/consumption to the Sprint.
 

coops

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 18, 2007
1,225
1
Manchester U.K.
Great video Leonardo, thanks for the link :)

I felt some sympathy for the Torq though, it sounded a bit tortured at low speed like that! Just before the motor cuts out on the first flat run, you can very briefly hear the tone change to a quieter, more normal one. The acoustics of the car park (?) certainly amplify the motor noises well.

The F-series bikes look good & a useful, if pricey :rolleyes:, addition to the ezee range. Just to clarify Flecc, when you referred to the Sprint in your last post, is it the U.S. 350W or UK 250W version? :confused: so confusing!

If I've understood correctly then, the F-series motors are like/same as the U.S. Sprint motor (350W?) and because of that extra power they retain the hill-climbing ability of the Sprint (U.S. or UK), even if limited to 15mph, and if delimited ("turbo mode") will run to 22mph due to the motor power curve being longer (& higher) than a 250W Sprint motor? i.e. they achieve higher speed more due to power than gearing as in the Torq, so as you say Flecc there's no free lunch & for both speed & climbing ability you pay through slightly higher power consumption?

If that's so, then the range may be more dependant on throttle control and relatively diminished at higher speeds than for the Torq, which is around minimum 30-40% less at full throttle than when restricted?

Its a good-looking bike and very powerful too when derestricted; maybe the range of 10-30 miles for the Furi on the Nycewheels site is indicative of the significance of throttle control on range for the F's ;)

I agree with Flecc's comments elsewhere though that for the UK legality, a restricted F-series seems more useful & less limited than a limited Torq, whose strength lies in economy at high geared speed :).

Its funny you ask about black batteries Leonardo: my NiMH is also black, and I wondered the same thing - even in the UK its getting hot in summer now! I think its ok while cycling its cooled, maybe just avoid leaving it in the sun when stopped :D the black exterior may help it radiate battery heat outwards when in the shade?!

Stuart.
 
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ITSPETEINIT

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 11, 2006
492
0
Mere, Wilts
Black or White? ask a Southern European

Posted by Coops:
Its funny you ask about black batteries Leonardo: my NiMH is also black, and I wondered the same thing - even in the UK its getting hot in summer now! I think its ok while cycling its cooled, maybe just avoid leaving it in the sun when stopped the black exterior may help it radiate battery heat outwards when in the shade?!


There was on TV recently mention why folk in hot countries wear black garments. Aparently because it inhibits the progress of the rays of the sun to the skin (cancer causing). Why would black batteries not have the same effect? Is it only all the colours of the spectrum that are "soaked up" by black and not the harmful radiations of which are the essence of the sun's heat? :confused:
Peter
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Just to clarify Flecc, when you referred to the Sprint in your last post, is it the U.S. 350W or UK 250W version? :confused: so confusing!

If I've understood correctly then, the F-series motors are like/same as the U.S. Sprint motor (350W?) and because of that extra power they retain the hill-climbing ability of the Sprint (U.S. or UK), even if limited to 15mph, and if delimited ("turbo mode") will run to 22mph due to the motor power curve being longer (& higher) than a 250W Sprint motor? i.e. they achieve higher speed more due to power than gearing as in the Torq, so as you say Flecc there's no free lunch & for both speed & climbing ability you pay through slightly higher power consumption?

If that's so, then the range may be more dependant on throttle control and relatively diminished at higher speeds than for the Torq, which is around minimum 30-40% less at full throttle than when restricted?

Its a good-looking bike and very powerful too when derestricted; maybe the range of 10-30 miles for the Furi on the Nycewheels site is indicative of the significance of throttle control on range for the F's ;)
That's broadly it Stuart. I was referring to the UK 250 watt Sprint motor that 50cycles refer to on their website. Obviously if run derestricted, the Forza will need incredibly constrained throttle control to reach a 30 mile range, which I think many would have great difficulty in achieving. In hilly areas it will be impossible, just as the throttle control that gave A to B 30 miles plus range on the Torq in the flat area of the Somerset levels is impossible to emulate in a hilly area, where 17 miles can be an achievement.

However, over-enthusiastic enjoyment of the Forza's speed in turbo mode could give only around 10 miles and after a year of normal Li-ion capacity loss when the battery is used like that, it could drop that about 6 miles! That will certainly teach restraint, so I don't think it will be the problem it might have seemed to be, and limiting will be much more widely used on this bike than it has been on the Torq. I believe it could be a more powerful performer than the Sprint even when limited, but that will have depended on eZee's implementation of that. A review will help a little, but there will be no substitute for owners experiences once we gather them.
 

coops

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 18, 2007
1,225
1
Manchester U.K.
Black or white/silver - does it matter?!

Hi Pete :)

ItsPeteinit said:
There was on TV recently mention why folk in hot countries wear black garments. Aparently because it inhibits the progress of the rays of the sun to the skin (cancer causing). Why would black batteries not have the same effect? Is it only all the colours of the spectrum that are "soaked up" by black and not the harmful radiations of which are the essence of the sun's heat?
Errrrrrrmmmmmm...... not sure, but I think if thats right black clothes may inhibit harmful rays by absorbing them & their energy (before it reaches the skin), and the absorbed energy is converted to heat: so you'd be protected from cancer causing UV rays, but get very hot/cooked in the process too :eek:

So the same would tend to apply to black-cased batteries: will absorb high energy UV etc. radiation (useful?!!), but in danger of overheating/cooking in extreme exposure :eek: ;)

Stuart.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Sorry I didn't respond on the black battery query Leonardo. I don't think it would be too much of a problem with temperatures up to 50 degrees C. Most battery types peak efficiency is reached at around 30 degrees C and often to well above. We are speaking of chemical reactions here, and they are invariably aided by heat within reason. Few materials get destroyed below 50 degrees C, and I don't know of a more vulnerable constituent in these battery cells. It's more likely that an internal charge control and protection circuit board component would reach it's it's specified limits by 50 degrees, but they have tolerances above specifications.

Since the sun's transmitted heat doesn't reach it's peak until directly overhead, a protective flap from the rear of the saddle to the carrier could easily be arranged if there's reason to be concerned.
 

ITSPETEINIT

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 11, 2006
492
0
Mere, Wilts
Hi Pete :)



Errrrrrrmmmmmm...... not sure, but I think if thats right black clothes may inhibit harmful rays by absorbing them & their energy (before it reaches the skin), and the absorbed energy is converted to heat: so you'd be protected from cancer causing UV rays, but get very hot/cooked in the process too :eek:

So the same would tend to apply to black-cased batteries: will absorb high energy UV etc. radiation (useful?!!), but in danger of overheating/cooking in extreme exposure :eek: ;)

Stuart.
Next time I see a Jilbab attired lady I'll ask her.
Annonymous
 

coops

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 18, 2007
1,225
1
Manchester U.K.
Then again, many people just like wearing black :)

Thanks for the reassurance on the black batteries Flecc: I didn't really think it should pose a heat problem, but you can't be too careful, eh?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Since the sun's transmitted heat doesn't reach it's peak until directly overhead, a protective flap from the rear of the saddle to the carrier could easily be arranged if there's reason to be concerned.
Further to this quote of mine, it's said that only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun Leonardo, so you should be safe! :D

See here for explanation.
.
 
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Leonardo

Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2006
207
0
www.jobike.it
One question more... I've seen that it not possible to fit an AXA lock on the eZee, due to the position of the battery... But do you think that this way could work?



May be it is not very clever, because it is clearly better to fix the lock to the frame than to the racks... but since the AXA lock is useful mainly for very short stops may be that even in this way it is better to have it.

(the photo is of a "e-move": a belgian pedelec I don't know much about)
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Yes, that can work on the eZee models Leonardo, but it might mean slightly elevating the carrier on some models and modifying the attachment hooks. I don't think the lock shown is the AXA SL7 though. That has an angled top and you can see that here. that could make fitting a bit more difficult to accomodate the angled cable entry for the optional cable.
.
 
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