Need help choosing a bike for 19 mile commute

Hi everyone, I’m looking for an ebike for a 19 mile commute each way. My situation is pretty similar to recent poster mooksy’s, I’ve been watching his thread closely and it’s been very helpful. I do have some questions, and rather than hijack his thread I thought I should start my own.

The main difference between his and my situation is that my commute will be exclusively on roads and relatively hilly (I can post a screenshot of the Strava elevation chart of my route if that would be helpful)

Until reading his post my heart was set on the oxygen s-cross MBT, but after seeing his suggestion of the Cube SUV hybrid I’m in two minds, I definitely like the idea of lower maintenance hub gears, the thing that concerns me is that I’m struggling to find any reference to this model anywhere other than the shop linked in his thread. I also like the large 17ah battery of the whoosh, but I haven’t seen many people recommend it other than whoosh themselves (no offence guys, I’ve seen you being very helpful and unbiased in several threads, but a few recommendations from people not affiliated with the company would help put my mind at ease) being able to do the journey on one charge would be very beneficial. What are people’s opinions on the bikes mentioned, what would your money be on?

Also, I know it’s an unanswerable question, but what sort of reduction on range do people find on deristricted ebikes, say the oxygen? (Maybe the elevation chart would help with this?) basically, would the oxygen still get me to work on one charge say with maximum power deristricted? I do plan on using a lower mode, but if I knew I could do it on maximum comfortably it would give me confidence.

Anyway I’m rambling. Any help would be much appreciated.

Edited January 22, 20188 yr by Ryan Yorke

Nearly 40 hilly miles at speed will really slurp the battery.

 

Very unlikely you could do that reliably on a single battery, so it's either two batteries or charge at both ends.

 

Your neatest solution would be a twin Bosch battery bike.

 

Riese and Muller is one of the few companies to offer a range of bikes with that option, but you may be able to find others.

 

Cube is a decent brand, the components are all named and reliable, so no worries there.

 

Some woosh customers appear happy with their bikes, but I suspect they are mostly leisure riders.

 

I wouldn't commute 40 hilly miles on a woosh or any other £1k Chinese ebike.

 

The big battery might be an attraction, but as remarked elsewhere, very often Chinese amp hours don't last as long as European ones.

The big battery might be an attraction, but as remarked elsewhere, very often Chinese amp hours don't last as long as European ones.

that is a gratuitous remarks, we use Samsung and Panasonic cells, same as you find in European made batteries. By the way, BMZ contacted me with regard to supplying me with their batteries as they claim they assemble batteries for Bosch and quite a few European brands, guess where.

There is a frequent issue with some users who put their batteries on charge far too often, after a few miles on a battery that can do 50. Over time, the battery can get unbalanced, causing an apparent drop in pulling power and needs rebalancing. To do that, ride the bike until you get a deep discharge then put it on charge, leaving the charger on for a couple of hours after it goes green.

I wouldn't take on a 64 km commute on anything less than an s-pedelec, they have the right components for the job. Second choice would be to build a bike fit for purpose with a powerful hub motor like the Q128 and a big battery either 52 or 48v. Most long distance commuters I know of are on the continent so it is maybe flatter and they often use either a trike or a velomobile, for example: https://etrike.wordpress.com/2017/12/16/the-black-ice-is-back-on-commuter-duty/

I wouldn't commute 40 hilly miles on a woosh or any other £1k Chinese ebike.

you haven't seen any one of my bikes recently.

Your friend Peter can probably confirm that GXP crankset, sub 2.2kg suspension fork, 9-speed Deore and hydraulic brakes are not fitted to cheap normal bikes, leave alone e-bikes.

 

Check out these three, £1,000-£1,100.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?santana-2018

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?rio-mtb

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?zephyr-2018

I definitely like the idea of lower maintenance hub gears,

 

If you go for hub gears like the Nexus/Alfine 8 I personally would avoid the ones where chain adjustment is only done by moving the wheel in the horizontal drop outs, especially in an alloy frame. With the power they can be hard on chains, although fitting a better chain helps.

 

I bought just such a bike but managed to fit an Alfine chain tensioner, these are designed for vertical drop-out so require a tab cutting off, at the time there wasn't one for horizontal drop-outs.

 

A Woosh bike or any other decent Chinese bike should be able to cope with a 19 mile commute both ways, as with any bike the user should carry out a weekly check over of the bike and just keep up with any niggly repairs needed.

At the end of the day even the top end ebikes are generically mostly Far East built or supplied components, the fact that they may be assembled in a different country doesn't make them less Far Eastern.

A road use bike will suffer less then one used as an off roader.

Im assuming that the Oxygen comes under the chinese bike banner? If so, I think my thread proves that such a commute is possible

My Norco is Canadian but all components are Far East It has got me to work and around town for the last 5 years, there not big 19 miles rides but never less has been reliable with various kits fitted. Any bike will have a niggle or maintenance issue thru wear and tear, just a case of prevention or aftercare.

Brakes, bearings, drive chain, tyres all will have an issue at some time in their life, even top end mid drive.

Electrics generally are ok, standing water or leaving out in the elements will cause an issue.

Two of my hubs have had bearings I have replaced for a few pounds nothing difficult to over come and no sending back to dealer to replace.

GXP BB bearings tend to be a little less resilient then Hollowtech but are still good for about 3k I find.

Most well known brands use good quality cells. If you're buying a cheapo from ebay then there is a good chance it's cheap for a reason. Any of the bikes listed so far are built to a high standard with good quality parts and will be good for what you are wanting to use them for. (I currently don't stock Woosh, Cube or Oxygen. So my commenting on their quality is not biased.)

 

I can post a suggestion for something that I do stock. Big battery, good for hills, roads with mud guards and integrated lights so ideal for commuting and has the option for hub gears.

Big British Company, made in Taiwan with a German motor.

Raleigh Motus

https://powerbikes.uk/product-tag/motus/

 

These are really popular bikes. I think the Cube has the better looks though. Woosh I know if you were to ever have an issue you will have good aftersales service. The Oxygen and Cube depends on who you buy it from really.

Thanks for all your replies!

 

- RobF, sorry maybe I wasn’t very clear. I understand that the full journey both ways would be too much to ask for a single charge on a 13ah pack. Charging both ends would be fine (my boss might grumble a bit, but he’d be ok with it) and I could take the bike to a power point to save wearing the battery connectors. Although the Riese and Muller would be fantastic, it is way out of my price range.

 

-Anotherkiwi unfortunately an s-Pedelec isn’t an option due to health issues and I think a trike might be too difficult to store etc. but a conversion could be an option, I don’t really have a suitable donor bike at the minute so I’d need to find something suitable. A conversion bike seems like it could be a little less reliable than a ‘made for purpose’ one, would this be true in your experience?

 

-Artstu, thanks, I’ll look out for that. I have zero experience with hub gears, and I’m only going on what I’ve read here, so any other do’s and don’t’s would be much appreciated. Is it worth the extra money and limited options?

 

- Andy Bluenoes, your review of the oxygen has been invaluable. I’ve already started a potential shopping list of the things you’ve bought to improve yours. I’m not sure about your route hill-wise, but your distance is certainly similar to mine. Would you ever have any concerns doing a single leg of the journey derestricted through the display ‘hack’ on maximum assist mode? Or is 20 miles easily achievable even in the worst conditions?

 

I do think Chinese doesn’t always mean cheap low quality products, some of the best products come out of China, but there’s a difference between a generic product produced in China and re-badged and a product made using Chinese components under a brand with a reputation and after sales care to worry about

 

- Andy Bluenoes, your review of the oxygen has been invaluable. I’ve already started a potential shopping list of the things you’ve bought to improve yours. I’m not sure about your route hill-wise, but your distance is certainly similar to mine. Would you ever have any concerns doing a single leg of the journey derestricted through the display ‘hack’ on maximum assist mode? Or is 20 miles easily achievable even in the worst conditions?

 

 

Hi Ryan

 

No problem...glad its been of help.

 

My route is reasonably flat, with a few, what maybe a lycra cyclist would call slopes thrown in.

 

This might help give you an idea of the hills or lack of:

 

https://www.strava.com/activities/1369277486

 

 

I do run the bike how you suggest and I complete my 18.5 mile commute with about 25% battery left I think. It starts out on 41.5, and dependant on the wind, I finish on 34.9, day in day out. I have to take the battery off at work as there is no power points in the basement area. I do charge on bike at home now.

 

I do 23 miles on my way home a couple of days a month as I need to take a detour, and it still has charge left when I get home, although cant remember exactly how much.

 

I tend to let the bike do as much work as possible on the way in to prevent the sweat, but coming home, i regularly give it some welly.

 

The only concern I do have is how long will the battery last before it doesn't make that route on those settings, as I am doing a lot of miles. When that day comes, though, I'll just get a bigger AH battery than the 13 thats on it, as the bike has caused me so little problems, I think its worth the spend.

 

I weigh around 82kgs, and my bike bags probably about 7kg in total, to give you an idea what its pulling.

 

I probably have spent more on the bike than I would like, but that would be the same for any bike....tyres, mudguards etc

 

Hope that helps

Andy

Thanks Andy, haven’t got time to reply properly right now, but here’s a screenshot of my route. I don’t know if it is particularly hilly or not to be honest!

that's not hilly. Maximum gradient is only 5%.

You can use my Predictor to give you a rough idea:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/clearway.php

Hi everyone, I’m looking for an ebike for a 19 mile commute each way. My situation is pretty similar to recent poster mooksy’s, I’ve been watching his thread closely and it’s been very helpful. I do have some questions, and rather than hijack his thread I thought I should start my own.

The main difference between his and my situation is that my commute will be exclusively on roads and relatively hilly (I can post a screenshot of the Strava elevation chart of my route if that would be helpful)

Until reading his post my heart was set on the oxygen s-cross MBT, but after seeing his suggestion of the Cube SUV hybrid I’m in two minds, I definitely like the idea of lower maintenance hub gears, the thing that concerns me is that I’m struggling to find any reference to this model anywhere other than the shop linked in his thread. I also like the large 17ah battery of the whoosh, but I haven’t seen many people recommend it other than whoosh themselves (no offence guys, I’ve seen you being very helpful and unbiased in several threads, but a few recommendations from people not affiliated with the company would help put my mind at ease) being able to do the journey on one charge would be very beneficial. What are people’s opinions on the bikes mentioned, what would your money be on?

Also, I know it’s an unanswerable question, but what sort of reduction on range do people find on deristricted ebikes, say the oxygen? (Maybe the elevation chart would help with this?) basically, would the oxygen still get me to work on one charge say with maximum power deristricted? I do plan on using a lower mode, but if I knew I could do it on maximum comfortably it would give me confidence.

Anyway I’m rambling. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Ryan, you'd be more than welcome to come and try a Roller among some proper hills in the Peak District.

I think it would easily help your commute and is very comfortable to ride.

 

We have some fully refurbished ex demos available at our New Mills workshop and our Ashbourne showroom too. You can find the ex demo bikes on eBay, or phone for details.

 

We also have a free battery upgrade offer for Pedelecs forum users (simply enter the coupon code "Pedelecs" at our website).

 

Other bikes available to try include Raleighs and Wispers so a visit might provide lots of insight and we'll happily let you test ride any bike.

Edited January 23, 20188 yr by JuicyBike

Thanks Woosh, that is a helpful tool. Unfortunately it isn’t working at the minute!

But I’ll keep checking back. I do like the look of the Rio fb, I think I will need it before May though. Are your bikes able to be derestricted? Would you still honour the garantee on a derestricted bike? And could you point me to any ongoing reviews of any of your bikes similar to Andy’s with the oxygen? I have no idea of the quality of your bikes, but it does worry me that on a forum that you are so active on I haven’t seen very many people recommending them (so far) whereas I have seen lots of people recommend the oxygen. This could be down to lots of other reasons other than reliability, and having said that, I haven’t seen any Woosh owners complaining about them either. I have an open mind, I’m not dismissing your product off hand, but 20 miles is a long way to walk if something goes catastrophically wrong!

 

Thanks Andy, that is all useful information, and has put my mind at ease with the range of the oxygen. I will probably take a similar approach of taking it easy on the way to work and putting a bit more effort on the way back, but it’s nice to know to know that if it’s been a tough day the range is there.

 

Like you say, I am a little worried by not having a huge amount of backup range to allow for depreciation of the battery, have you looked into the availability of larger batteries for the future? Do you have any idea of costs? (I realise the cost will be different a year down the line) and have you managed to match the form factor of the oxygen battery, or will it be a bit of an improvised job?

 

It seem like you haven’t been overly extravagant in the things you’ve bought. You went for the premium grips, but then you didn’t have to compromise on them not quite fitting right, seems sensible to me! If I’m going to be spending around 10 hours a week on the bike it makes sense to make it as comfortable as reasonably possible, and I’m factoring these things into the overall cost of the bike.

Thanks Woosh, that is a helpful tool. Unfortunately it isn’t working at the minute!

But I’ll keep checking back. I do like the look of the Rio fb, I think I will need it before May though. Are your bikes able to be derestricted? Would you still honour the garantee on a derestricted bike? And could you point me to any ongoing reviews of any of your bikes similar to Andy’s with the oxygen? I have no idea of the quality of your bikes, but it does worry me that on a forum that you are so active on I haven’t seen very many people recommending them (so far) whereas I have seen lots of people recommend the oxygen. This could be down to lots of other reasons other than reliability, and having said that, I haven’t seen any Woosh owners complaining about them either. I have an open mind, I’m not dismissing your product off hand, but 20 miles is a long way to walk if something goes catastrophically wrong!

Oh yes, sorry about the Predictor tool, I was fiddling with upgrading PHP to the current version this afternoon. It's now fixed and working. You enter your postcode then enter. The map then centers on that postcode, click where you want to go to on the map. Drag the path to where you want if the autoplot does not follow your normal path. Click 'help me choose' for more options.

 

If you want to use the Rio FB for the distance, you will need to change the tyres to puncture proof. It can take 26 x 2.3 - there are more choices of tyres and also some have puncture proof green guard.

Regarding derestriction, we don't mind if people are reasonable, +10%-15% is OK with regard to warranty, still illegal though.

There are quite a lot of reviews of Woosh bikes over the year. Practically all the models have been reviewed by forum members, although little has been written on the Rio FB. I guess it's down to statistics, the Rio FB is new and less popular than the Rio MTB which is in the same market segment as the Oxygen that you considered, except that you can buy it with the rack fitted and 17AH battery.

The Rio MTB has got a few threads here, on this forum. Volusia25 and Damian.Doherty posted quite a lot about their Rio MTB, Damian posted also some videos. Search the forum for their posts.

I must also add the Oxygen has a solid track record, you can't go much wrong with it.

 

Thanks Andy, that is all useful information, and has put my mind at ease with the range of the oxygen. I will probably take a similar approach of taking it easy on the way to work and putting a bit more effort on the way back, but it’s nice to know to know that if it’s been a tough day the range is there.

 

Like you say, I am a little worried by not having a huge amount of backup range to allow for depreciation of the battery, have you looked into the availability of larger batteries for the future? Do you have any idea of costs? (I realise the cost will be different a year down the line) and have you managed to match the form factor of the oxygen battery, or will it be a bit of an improvised job?

 

.

 

To be honest, my ongoing review was very nearly an ongoing review of the Rio mtb .

 

My circumstances at the time I bought the oxygen were such that I didn’t have the funds available to pay outright for the Rio, whereas I had the option to get the oxygen on c2w. That was literally the reason I went for the oxygen over the Rio.

 

Given all the issues I had with previous bikes, which are documented on this forum,struggling to do a 15 mile commute at that time, whoosh was really putting his faith in his bike, when he said the Rio would be perfect.

 

If I was looking for a bike now, under my current circumstances...would I go Rio or oxygen? Really not sure, but it’s a big price difference, and you get 17ah battery on the rio....a lot of the parts are the same on both bikes, and it look# like the battery is the same fitting.

 

In fact, if whoosh did the c2w scheme my employer uses, I’d probably get one come June, and have 2 bikes [emoji3]

 

As for a new battery, oxygen don’t offer anything bigger...but whoosh mentioned that he may have a 20ah sometime in the future, which could be the perfect option.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

To add to the conversation, I’ve got an oxygen S-Cross CB (with upgraded hydraulic discs), I run mine derestricted in the power mode for my commute. I ride about 25 miles in total with total climbing of about 900ft so not too much. I only charge the bike at home each night. I have 2 bars left of the 5 in the power meter when I get home, typically it drops from 3 bars to 2 around 2 miles from home.

Bike is always run with panniers and usually with quite a bit of luggage on.

Thanks for all your replies!

 

Although the Riese and Muller would be fantastic, it is way out of my price range.

 

Please don't forget I have a few hardly used RM bikes available at about half price. All with a year's warranty!

 

All the best, David

By the way, BMZ contacted me with regard to supplying me with their batteries as they claim they assemble batteries for Bosch and quite a few European brands, guess where.

Without side-tracking this thread too much: My pair of household helpers... the oldest dates back to 2005 (when German stuff was actually made in Germany), and still running on its original BMZ batteries. They have been excellent...

 

 

My newer Bosch "professional" power-tool batteries on the other hand... one says "Made in Poland" the other "Made in Malaysia". My new Bosch "professional" rip-saw says "Made in China", and my Bosch combi-microwave "Made in Korea". Most "German" stuff is today, I think, no better than most Far Eastern... except without an inflated German price tag. But I won't bang on about that yet again.

I’m in two minds, I definitely like the idea of lower maintenance hub gears,

If there's zero maintenance on derailleur gears, how can hub gears be lower maintenance? Derailleurs might look complicated, but once set-up, they will give years of trouble free service. Many biased opinions on derailleur gears originate from trouble from the cheapest ones that you get on catalogue bikes that were never set correctly at the factory. You won't get any problems with the decent gears you get on a bike like the Oxygen, especially if you only ride it on the road. Personally, I think a crank-drive bike and normal hub-gears is a bad idea.

that's not hilly. Maximum gradient is only 5%.

You can use my Predictor to give you a rough idea:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/clearway.php

 

That's a really useful tool.

I don't suppose you have considered a park and pedal commute. This might suit you if the last bit is into a busy town. Otherwise S Pedelec sounds the solution as you don't want to sit on busy roads at 15mph. The safety stats don't look good for cyclist then.

- JuicyBike, thanks for the kind offer of testing some of your bikes, the Peak District is a little out of my way, but I’ll keep it in mind.

 

- Amps Electric Bikes, which RM models do you have available? Is there any way of knowing for sure how much use the batteries have had and the condition of them?

 

- Cycle Buddy, I have experience with Bosch power tools too, their quality has definitely taken a hit in recent years. Hopefully in a new market such as ebikes they still feel they have something to prove and won’t drop the quality for a couple of years at least! You say those household helpers date back to 2005, but judging from the pic they have to have come out of the 80’s

 

- d8veh, maybe you’re right, I’m sure I could manage to adjust the derailleur should it get knocked or need adjustment.

 

- Auxtail, unfortunately there isn’t such a scheme available to me, I live in a small town and my workplace is out in the sticks, mine will be more of a cross country commute than an inner city one. My most direct route is along a very busy A road at a distance of 17 miles, for an extra 2 miles I’ve found route that would only use around 3 miles of that A road, the rest on quite picturesque country roads, or for a total of 20.5 miles I can miss the A road all together. What is the general consensus of using s Pedelecs unregistered? Is it a risk worth taking, or is the risk of getting caught too high? I can’t imagine ever getting stopped and questioned, especially on my countryside route. A lot of people seem happy to run their bikes deristricted which obviously means they don’t meet regulations, is running an unregistered s Pedelec any worse?