Need advice 250W 8FUN BBS01 or HUB MOTOR

[Deleted member 4366]

The BBS01 is the easiest to install, but you lose your front gears. You'll need a top gear with 11 teeth to be able to pedal above 15mph. It will work with any bottle battery, but it would work best with one that has at least 10.4 aH. You can reach 35km/h, but in the higher gears,there isn't much torque, so you have to pedal hard to help the motor at that speed. For speeds up to 15km/h, you don't have to pedal hard. Naturally, hills reduce these speeds and increase pedal effort.

The 250w Bafang CST is a much stronger motor. The speed depends on the motor RPM, so you need to find out what that is from the supplier. You need 270 rpm for 35km/hr. I think that most 250w Bafang CSTs are about 250 rpm (31 km/h). This motor can work with a 15 amp controller and any bottle battery, but it gives much more power with more amps, for which you need a stronger battery. The wheels supplied in the kits, normally need to be dished. They're built with the rim central to the spoke flanges. You normally need to move the rim about 5mm by loosening the spokes on one side and tightening them on the other. The quality of the rim and spokes is OK, but you normally need to tighten the spokes.

The Q100 CST has much less power than the BAfang CST, and about the same as the BBS01. I think that it will have enough power for you at lower speeds, but is not powerful enough to sustain 35km/h. It's not so good for steep hills, but you said that you don't have them. You might need to dish the wheel like with the Bafang CST. To get the speed you want, a 36v battery will be no good. You'll need 44v or 48v.

These hub-motors are more relaxing to ride than crank-motors. You don't have to change gear so much, and when you do change gear, it's much smoother because there's no load on the chain.

In summary, hub-motors are a little more complicated to fit, but give a more comfortable ride. You need a 36v one with 270 rpm, or you get a 36v 201 rpm one and run it at 48v.

 

[ghia61]

If I need to summaries:
The most powerful is the BAFANG CST
Probably the faster (top speed) is the Bafang CST (270RPM)
The comfort ones to ride will be the both CSTs.
The most simplest installation is the BBS01.

Now how about the noise level from each one of them? Are they quite enough or loudly ones that disturbed the rider (I am sensitive to noises )?
And what about the efficiency of each one? can I get 20-25 miles or more on 36V/10Ah battery with minimum pedaling 80Kg rider?

 

[trex]

in practice, the BBS01 is faster and quieter. This is because it is very efficient on 11/12T, a common factor among crank drives. The only real drawback of crank drives is gear change noise, Bosch has done a good job of reducing it, Chinese manufacturers won't be far behind.

 

[ghia61]

Some update, so I finally bought a front hub motor kit, 250W.
Hope to get the idea of the e bike with that one, then to upgrade to one of the CST motors.

Now the controller I got is PAS, while the throttle comes into work after some PAS pulses.
My problem is that the PAS magnets plate have no room between the BB and the front gears small plate.
I would get rid of the PAS, unless I must have it on that kit.
Do you have any suggestion?
Can I find any PAS for the left BB side?
What are my options?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Your present PAS can be fitted to the left side. You must flip the magnet ring or it'll work backwards. If there's not enough space for it, get a longer BB (about 5mm longer) from Halfords for about a tenner, or use the opportunity to upgrade your crank to a hollowtech one, which would be a better option if you have a 42T or 44T chainwheel because you can increase it to 48T for more comfortable pedalling.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/15682-upgrade-your-cranks-66-less.html

 

[ghia61]

Your present PAS can be fitted to the left side. You must flip the magnet ring or it'll work backwards.

I just need some clarifications about that.
To place it at the left BB side, I have 2 options (hope this photo will upload OK):
first orientation:


Second orientation:



Front of the bike in both pics is on the left side. Which picture is the correct left side installation.

edit: Red arrows describe the magnet plate arrow direction (not the crank).

 

[peerjay56]

I just need some clarifications about that.
To place it at the left BB side, I have 2 options (hope this photo will upload OK):
first orientation:

Front of the bike in both pics is on the left side. Which picture is the correct left side installation.

edit: Red arrows describe the magnet plate arrow direction (not the crank).

Assuming it was previously installed on the right, you need to fit it as per the second photo. Before you tighten the crank arm back on, just try it to see and spin the crank to see which direction the PAS responds to. If it goes the wrong way round, just swap it! You can tighten everything back up once its right.
The Cyclotricity PAS fits on the left anyway, so you just follow the instructions that come with the kit (I don't think you have that kit though, do you?)

 

[ghia61]

Assuming it was previously installed on the right, you need to fit it as per the second photo. Before you tighten the crank arm back on, just try it to see and spin the crank to see which direction the PAS responds to. If it goes the wrong way round, just swap it! You can tighten everything back up once its right.
The Cyclotricity PAS fits on the left anyway, so you just follow the instructions that come with the kit (I don't think you have that kit though, do you?)

It is not the cyclotricity one, and I don't have the instruction. I will do the test before I will tighten everything.

 

[ghia61]

So, after 2 weeks and more then 300Km with the bike, I would like to share some pictures of my installation. Feedback are more then welcome.
I bought this kit as 2nd hand, after some investigation and understanding that the import to Israel is too complicated. The motor is unknown unless someone can recognize it (usually the company that supply this kit use the Bfang motors). There is no marking on the motor.
The battery is 36V/9.6AH with Panasonic cells Li-Ion.
Over all I am more then happy with the kit.

The bike:


The motor:


The PAS (I found an thin magnet plate and place it on the left side):


The battery:


Still have some open issues:
1) I order torque arm (Cyclezee says that one is enough):
Torque Arm Plate Sets for Electric Bikes | eBay
still wait to the package. I also ordered volt meter to have some better monitoring the battery voltage.
2) One can see that the PAS sensor placed a little bit far from the magnets, my opinion is that it cause to the cuts while easy pedaling. I will change the sensor mount.
3) the battery mount was broken during the last week, thus I add the long screw to support the battery and reduced the vibration. Need a new battery base.
4) When I stop pedal, I feel extra power from the motor for 1 sec comparing to the throttle max power. Why do I get extra power from the PAS comparing to the throttle? Do I need a different throttle? Does the throttle behave like a hall sensor?

Thanks for all the help and support that I got in this thread, special thanks for Dave for the support here and in PM.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The extra power that you get when you stop pedalling is the same level as the PAS setting. which will be full power if you don't have a LED or LCD with PAS levels.

If you don't use the throttle at all, you will see that the power continues for about one second after you stop pedalling. When you use the throttle, it takes precedence, so you can get low power from it, but when you want to slow down, you stop the throttle, which then makes the controller switch back to PAS mode that is still running in the background, so it will run with full power for one second after you stop pedalling. You can avoid it by using the brakes, which cut the power immediately if you have the switches connected.

 

[ghia61]

Dave, let me clearify.
The test procedure is:
1) Holding the throttle to the max power.
2) PAS level to the max level. (I have the LED display).
3) Pedaling (still holding the throttle).
4) I can fill extra power from the motor, verifiyng with the voltage level goes down one step.
5) I stop pedaling (still holding the throttle to the max).
6) 1 sec after that I still fill the extra power from the motor, then I fill the power goes down and the voltage indicator goes up again one step up.

What I am trying to say is that with the throttle I get less power than the PAS.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

OK, I get it. You need to verify whether it's the controller software or a low throttle signal. If you have a cycle computer, put it on the motor wheel; lift the wheel off the ground and give it full throttle; note the speed. Then. do it again with the throttle disconnected, and short the red throttle pin to the signal pin (normally green or white). If there's a difference in speed, a different throttle will sort it. If not, it's just the way the controller works.

 

[ghia61]

OK. I got it.
But just to know, how is the throttle works? Is it variable resistance or like a hall senaor?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Its a hall sensor with two magnets. With no magnets you get half throttle. To get know throttle, the low magnet has to be hard against the hall sensor, and for max throttle, the high magnet has to be hard against it. A small gap can make a significant difference.

 

[Gh0stxSinghx]

My BBS01 250W and li-ion bottle battery 36V 8.8ah is top 20-21 mph and 355 rpm for rear 20 inch wheel.

 

[ghia61]

I put some more KM on the scale, still very happy with the bike.
I wonder if there is a way to install disk brake on the front hub motor . The motor doesn't have the screw for the disk.As far as I know this motor should be one of the Bafang, may be the BPM, but I am not sure.
One can see a pic of the motor at post # 29.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Your motor is too small to be a BPM. It is possible to modify some by simply drilling and tapping the six holes, but you need to disassemble the motor first to do it safely. How is yours fixed together, Can we see a photo of the other side.

I looked at my non-disc QSWXK motor and it's identical to the disc version apart from the 6 holes, but yours seems to be missing the flat surface, where the disc lies, so the forst step is to get any disc and lie it on the motor to seeig it lies flat. If it does, you shouls be able to fit it. If it works, you'll need a 180mm disc and a 160/180mm ISIS adaptor for the caliper.

 

[ghia61]

OK, I get it. You need to verify whether it's the controller software or a low throttle signal. If you have a cycle computer, put it on the motor wheel; lift the wheel off the ground and give it full throttle; note the speed. Then. do it again with the throttle disconnected, and short the red throttle pin to the signal pin (normally green or white). If there's a difference in speed, a different throttle will sort it. If not, it's just the way the controller works.

Its been a long time, but now I would like to take it and close the gap between PAS and Throttle speed.

I did the test, I lifted the wheel off the ground, then with the throttle I got max speed of 44Km/h, the same test with the PAS show 53Km/h. (on flat road I usually get 30/35Km/h respectively).

Then I disconnect the throttle wires, and short the +5V red wire to the white. At this stage I got the 53Km/h wheel of the ground (same as the PAS).

Now I am not sure that the throttle itself is the problem, since the throttle white wire should give the 0-4V, and in my test I connected it to 5V.

Am I right?
Do I miss something?
What would be if I will set a button to short this wires to get the extra power/speed w/o the PAS?
Note that I already bought a new throttle but I am not sure If I need the replacement.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You measure between the black and the white wire with the throttle fully open.

 

[ghia61]

If you meant to the white wire voltage, so I didn't measure. I saw that this is the spec of the throttle.
I will measure it tomorow and update with the results.