Need advice 250W 8FUN BBS01 or HUB MOTOR

[ghia61]

I am a new member locating in Israel and this is my first post.
I got to the decision to keep my old bike (Merida SUB-60) and buy electric bike kit for them.
I am a 80Kg guy, going to ride about 15-20 miles a day, flat except of 2 long but not steep hills. I want to keep the bike for a non motor cycling, but ride that way with min pedal assist, thus the DD motor type will not good for me.

I read a lot of good feedback about the Bafang/8FUN kits, and looking forward to buy one of their kits.
I like the bottle type battery and look for a clean and nice installation.

I am a little bit confused regarding the motor type. I like the BBS01 kits but I am not sure if it worth the extra $, and not sure it is the best kit for me. Most of the reviews and post talking about the 750W version, unfortunately this one is not legal in Israel.
What would be a better performance kit, BBS01 or HUB motor both 250W?

If HUB motor kit what about rear motor installation? My cassette has 9 plates, what should be done to place 6 or 7 plates one? do I need a new shifter/derailleur?

I know the advantages of and disadvantages of the mid drives, but some said the 250W BBS is not to strong and feels less powerfull than the hub motors.

BBS:
36V 250W bafang motor 2013 New model BBS01 Centeral driven Motor for electric bike kit conversion-Greenbikekit.com online store for electric bicycle components-GreenBikeKit.com

HUB:
36V250W Front K5 Motor E-Bike Whole Kit - BMSBATTERY
or:
Q85 36V250W Front V-Brake E-Bike Whole Kit - BMSBATTERY

Can some one help me to get a decision, which kit is the best for me?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

At only 80kg without steep hills, a hub-motor would probably be better for you than a crank-drive. There's now some rear hub-motors that have splines for cassette gears, so you can keep your existing gears. Lokk for the Bafang 250w
Bafang 36V 250W CST
CST motor,
rear hub motor cassette freewheel,8 to 9 speed cassette motor, View cassette motor, MXUS Product Details from Changzhou Hua Yu Xin Feng Motor Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
the cassette version of the Q100
250W M140-R CST

You need to check the specification for the RPM. 201 RPM is maximum 28km/h. If you want faster than that, you need more RPM. The controllers supplied in the kits above are basic. It would be better to get a controller with LCD display. Tell the supplier that it's important that the motor is marked 250w. MXUS can supply the complete kit for their motor with a bottle battery. The best bottle batteries are 11.6aH with Panasonic NCR18650 cells

 

[ghia61]

Thanks for the information. I thought that rear hub support just 6-7 gears cassette.

So I will probably go with rear Hub Motor. Now just need to find the correct one.

Is Q100 made by Bafang?

Is there any other supplier for rear hub motor kits for 9 speeds cassette?

What would be the best value for money kit?

 

[ghia61]

Some other thought back to CD. I also read some post regarding the GNG, and it looks now in a fair price.

36V 250W New Mid Electric Motorized E Bike Conversion Kit New Crank Arm | eBay

Do I miss something?
What are you guys thinking of this kit?

 

[trex]

I think that the SWXK5 is very reliable - the LCD easy to program, making this kit a sure start for first build.

Depending on the donnor bike of course, but in general, donnor bikes do not have their frame made to host the CD motor like on the Woosh CDs. Consequently, CD kits will always look a little untidy on self build bikes and you will aso lose the front derailleurs.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/sport-cd/sport-cd30-800.jpg

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You need to tell us how fast you want to go. Some crank motor kits have a 42T or 44T chainwheel, which might make the gearing a bit low for you.

Most rear hub-motors have a thread for free-wheel gears, which limits it to 7-speed and a 14T top gear. The motors I indicated above have splines for cassette (free-hub) gears, so you can have anything up to 10-speed.

You can get a good kit direct from MXUS in China.

The Q100 with cassette sometimes has the designation Q140 is not made by Bafang.

 

[ghia61]

I would like to get 30 to 35Km/H top speed.
Do you think I can reach this top speed with 250W HUB motor? Do you think I can reach it with CD?

I never heard about the MXUS kits. Do you have any experience with them? Are they reliable? Are they strong enough?

 

[ghia61]

I think that the SWXK5 is very reliable - the LCD easy to program, making this kit a sure start for first build.

Depending on the donnor bike of course, but in general, donnor bikes do not have their frame made to host the CD motor like on the Woosh CDs. Consequently, CD kits will always look a little untidy on self build bikes and you will aso lose the front derailleurs.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/sport-cd/sport-cd30-800.jpg

I like the picture.
I mark the BBS01 as potential because of its "clean" and elegant look. The controller is inside the motor, make the installation easy.

 

[trex]

I would like to get 30 to 35Km/H top speed.
Do you think I can reach this top speed with 250W HUB motor? Do you think I can reach it with CD?

I never heard about the MXUS kits. Do you have any experience with them? Are they reliable? Are they strong enough?

I have the BBS01 (legal 250W). With a little pedalling, I can top 35kph on 36V battery on flat roads. If you want higher speed, just up the voltage.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Many OEM electric bikes use MXUS motors. They're strong and reliable. Many people on this forum use them, but they don't know it because the motors usually are not marked with the MXUS logo.

You can reach 35km/h with either crank or hub 250w motors. The hub-motor must have a speed in the range 250 to 270 RPM., and you need a controller that gives at least 18 amps. You can increase the speed of a hub-motor by 20% if you use 12S lipos (44v) instead of a 36v ebike battery. You can increase the current of most controllers by up to 50% by soldering the shunt.

Whatever stuff you buy, I guess you know that there's a lot of restrictions to bring stuff into Israel. If you don't know about this, you should ask some questions on www.endless-sphere.com, where there are several Israeli members.

 

[ghia61]

Thanks for the info. I can bring EU legal bike to Israel, meaning 250W max, PAS only (no throttle), top speed of 25KM/H.

What about the GNG? It is very low cost for a mid drive kit. What is your opinion about this one? Is it reliable one? Is it powerful? Does it have any resistance if I want motor off cycling?
It is not elegant like the BBS01 but the price looks good, and I trust my self to install it as clean as possible.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The GNG works OK, but it has some disadvantages. It doesn't comply with EN15194 because it's throttle only. I think that the controller doesn't have a connector for a pedal sensor. Also, you lose your front gears. It has a freewheel in the drive sprocket, so you can pedal normally, but with ticking noise. The BSS01 is much better.

Whatever system you get, make sure that it has at least three levels of pedal assistance. Some of the cheaper ones only have one level.

 

[ghia61]

Can anyone explain me what is a "hall sensor"?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hall effect sensors are affected by magnetism. There's different types. The ones in the motor, pedal sensor and brake switches just switch on and off as the magnetic field passes. Others, like the throttle or torque sensors give a varying voltage depending on how strong the magnetic field is. All the ones we use on electric bikes are 5v, so the signal wire on the switching ones is 0v or 5v. The variable ones give a voltage between about 1v and 4v on the signal wire.

Hall sensors are often used for RPM measurement because you only need a magnet on the shaft, and electronics can count the pulses, which is what happens on the pedal sensor.

 

[ghia61]

OK. Thanks d8veh for the valuable information.
After searching the internet, I have few more questions before I place an order.

What is the recommended continuous current needed from the battery for the BBS01 or the CST 250W?
I found some where that 15A is recommended for the BBS01. Is that true?
If yes, so I can't find a bottle type 10Ah battery with 15A continues. So it send me to a rack battery which I think it less elegant, and add weight to the back. Does any one know bottle type 36V/10Ah battery that provide 15A continues?

Other issue is the controller, what would be if I am using Bafang 250W (LCD) controller with GNG or other type 250W motor? Is it possible to mix brands or I need the same brand for the controller and the motor?
I am asking because of this option:
bottle ebike battery with controller
Is that controller good for the Bafang CST motor?

What would be if I choose 500W controller on 250W motor?

Apologizes for the mess.

 

[trex]

OK. Thanks d8veh for the valuable information.
After searching the internet, I have few more questions before I place an order.

What is the recommended continuous current needed from the battery for the BBS01 or the CST 250W?
I found some where that 15A is recommended for the BBS01. Is that true?
If yes, so I can't find a bottle type 10Ah battery with 15A continues. So it send me to a rack battery which I think it less elegant, and add weight to the back. Does any one know bottle type 36V/10Ah battery that provide 15A continues?

Other issue is the controller, what would be if I am using Bafang 250W (LCD) controller with GNG or other type 250W motor? Is it possible to mix brands or I need the same brand for the controller and the motor?
I am asking because of this option:
bottle ebike battery with controller
Is that controller good for the Bafang CST motor?

What would be if I choose 500W controller on 250W motor?

Apologizes for the mess.

Yes to 15A continuous for BBS01.

The controller at the base of the bottle is not strong enough for the Bafang CST.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

15 amps isn't very high. Most bottle batteries can do that, but you should avoid the cheapest 8.8aH ones. You can get bottle batteries that give 18 amps continuous. Look for 11.6aH ones with Panasonic cells. Any one with Samsung cells should also be OK.

Most 250w controllers are about 15 amps, but it's easy to adjust them for higher current. The Bafang 250w CST motor is big and can give good power with higher current, so a 20 or 22 amp controller (350w) would be better.

You can use more or less any controller with any hub-motor as long as you get the right type (brushed/brushless), power and sensor mode (sensored/sensorless). Some controllers can switch modes between sensor and sensorless, and, generally, you can use a sensorless controller with a sensored motor.

The controller in that bottle battery doesn't work with the 250w GNG because it's for a brushless motor (3 wire). The GNG motor is brushed (2 wire). It would be good for any 250w hub-motor. It would work with the Bafang CST, but you won't get the extra power that the motor can give with more current.

 

[ghia61]

Understood.
What about LIFEPO4 battery?
It has higher C rate then LI-ION, and higher charging cycles, at least at the spec.

About the controller, how can I increase the current of the bottle type controller? Is it possible and reliable?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's normal LiFePO4 which is heavy and has low C rate, Headway and A123 are also LiFePO4 and heavy, but they have a very high C rate.

The bottle batteries and many other ebike batteries have 18650 cells like the ones in laptop batteries. They're getting better all the time. Sony, Panasonic and Samsung all make them with C rares from 3 to 5. Look for any 11.6 aH battery, and the chances are it has the Panasonic NCR18650 cells with high discharge. Don't worry too much about the number of discharge cycles unless you plan to keep your bike for ten years or more. Even the worst batteries will give you 5 years of charging every week day, by which time new batteries will be available that are significantly better.

 

[ghia61]

I still need some compression between the kits in order to get final decision.

Some facts on my costs:
the BBS01 and Bafang CST 250W kits will cost the same after shipping costs and taxes.
The Q100 CST 250W kit will cost about 160$ less then the Bafang ones.

My questions are:

1. Do you still think that the CST will be better than the mid drive for my use? Does Bafang kits worth the extra $?

2. I would like to have a comparison of top speed, efficiency, power (hill climbing), noise level for 26", with 36V/10aH working at 15A, min pedaling for these 3 kits. How can I find this info?

3. I consider buying from GreenBikeKits.com or BMSbattery.com, how is the quality of their kits, especially the wheel rim and spokes?

Thanks.