NEC Cycle Show 2017: Wisper e-MTBs, Swytch & other highlights
- Thread starter Pedelecs
- Start date
We would prefer people to ride legal bikes here in the U.K. but if you ever buy one of our bikes I will personally offer you the same deal as long as you guarantee not to put the ebike market at risk in the U.K. by riding the bike, dongle fitted anywhere the general public have access.put your money where your mouth is then and honer the warranty with a dongle fitted.
if you are that confident it wont be a problem then why not because that will boost sales like it or not.
All the best, David
Please see my previous post.
Yes I will. As long as you only ride the bike dongle fitted in an area where the general public cannot gain access.
I assume you understand that riding an electric bike that is capible of assisted speeds of more than 15.5mph anywhere the public have access is illegal?
I also assume you understand that if you are flouting the law by fitting a dongle and hurt someone, by colliding with them on your illegal bike, apart from the fact you will be open to prosecution, you selfishly put the whole ebiking community in jeopardy?
All the best, David
Yes I will. As long as you only ride the bike dongle fitted in an area where the general public cannot gain access.
I assume you understand that riding an electric bike that is capible of assisted speeds of more than 15.5mph anywhere the public have access is illegal?
I also assume you understand that if you are flouting the law by fitting a dongle and hurt someone, by colliding with them on your illegal bike, apart from the fact you will be open to prosecution, you selfishly put the whole ebiking community in jeopardy?
All the best, David
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id say thats a no then and why it says ebike shop on my down tube pmsl.
I’ve just watched your video. Whoever is riding this rather noisy motored Ebike is the type of person who will eventually ensure we all lose the special dispensation that allows us to to ride our Ebikes without tax insurance etc etc. Complete disregard for the safety of pedestrians and other road users. Unbelievably selfish!
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Well there’s a surprise!
And we will keep on fitting what we consider to be the best system available for eMTBs.
All the best David
And we will keep on fitting what we consider to be the best system available for eMTBs.
All the best David
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These drives were designed for MTBing, how you choose to use a ebike is definitely not market E8000 is after, neither is Bosch CX. So no loss for Shimano. You may struggle to fit a dongle to E8000 anyway due to pickup and magnet design.
Hi Trevor, I don't think there is a dongle yet, but I may be mistaken. We have an OEM dongle that enables us to set up the motor, but we needed to open an OEM account to get hold of one. Let's hope they manage to keep it clean.
Bosch seem to be struggling with the current motor set up enabling anyone to bypass their bike's system making it illegal to use in the UK. Let's hope they can sort it out before there is a serious accident and we all lose out.
All the best, David
Bosch seem to be struggling with the current motor set up enabling anyone to bypass their bike's system making it illegal to use in the UK. Let's hope they can sort it out before there is a serious accident and we all lose out.
All the best, David
SW, Most of the time your posts are either informative or amusing... But at other times you can be a right dick.
Soundwave. If I remember you said you were banned from driving before you had a licence. You also said you don't have one now.
Riding the bike in the format you ride it is tantamount to riding a bike requiring tax (£0) a driving licence and insurance. If you're ever stopped I hope you're aware of the risk you are running. You could end up with your bike impounded, a fine of £5,000 plus 6-9 more points on your non existent licence. You could also be facing a custodial sentence albeit unlikely.
So for you to rabbit on about dongles is a total waste of time and effort. You often seem to live an argument for the sake of one. Time to grow up, act your age, be responsible and move on.
Riding the bike in the format you ride it is tantamount to riding a bike requiring tax (£0) a driving licence and insurance. If you're ever stopped I hope you're aware of the risk you are running. You could end up with your bike impounded, a fine of £5,000 plus 6-9 more points on your non existent licence. You could also be facing a custodial sentence albeit unlikely.
So for you to rabbit on about dongles is a total waste of time and effort. You often seem to live an argument for the sake of one. Time to grow up, act your age, be responsible and move on.
Posting styles aside, it appears there may be a problem with the latest Shimano eMTB motor over heating.
The answer 'we've fixed it now' could be true, but it does rather smack of a Kalkhoff/Impulse response.
And like Impulse, I wonder if part of the problem is trying to screw ever more power out of what is a relatively low power system.
I've ridden an ordinary Steps motored bike, and would quite happily run one, but it doesn't have the poke of a Bosch Performance motor.
That hardly matters in day-to-day use, unless you need full assistance on the flat.
Shimano also has form for releasing less than fully developed products to customers.
The early Alfine 11 hubs had a widespread dropping second gear problem.
To be fair to Madison/Shimano, they appear to have changed all the dodgy hubs free of charge.
There were no other affordable 11 speed hubs at the time, but in the case of a crank drive ebike there are similarly priced alternatives.
Most of the quality crank drives are similar to ride, so it seems to me the ubiquitous Bosch motor is the best choice until Shimano has completed its beta testing.
The Yamaha motor also seems reliable, although I read something about them changing battery terminals year on year, which might give users a backwards compatibility problem in years to come.
In a video posted on here, someone from Bosch said the company promises to support products for at least seven years after they drop out of the model range.
The same batteries are in Bosch 2018 bikes, so that means you can be confident of getting a replacement up to at least 2025.
The answer 'we've fixed it now' could be true, but it does rather smack of a Kalkhoff/Impulse response.
And like Impulse, I wonder if part of the problem is trying to screw ever more power out of what is a relatively low power system.
I've ridden an ordinary Steps motored bike, and would quite happily run one, but it doesn't have the poke of a Bosch Performance motor.
That hardly matters in day-to-day use, unless you need full assistance on the flat.
Shimano also has form for releasing less than fully developed products to customers.
The early Alfine 11 hubs had a widespread dropping second gear problem.
To be fair to Madison/Shimano, they appear to have changed all the dodgy hubs free of charge.
There were no other affordable 11 speed hubs at the time, but in the case of a crank drive ebike there are similarly priced alternatives.
Most of the quality crank drives are similar to ride, so it seems to me the ubiquitous Bosch motor is the best choice until Shimano has completed its beta testing.
The Yamaha motor also seems reliable, although I read something about them changing battery terminals year on year, which might give users a backwards compatibility problem in years to come.
In a video posted on here, someone from Bosch said the company promises to support products for at least seven years after they drop out of the model range.
The same batteries are in Bosch 2018 bikes, so that means you can be confident of getting a replacement up to at least 2025.
Refreshing to read a non aggressive post outlining your fears. I too would lean towards the Bosche systems. But Brose appeared to offer a great motor but I've noticed that Bosche is again appearing on more Bulls ebikes. Bulls a firm who pushed Brose in their models last year.
Trouble is, as your outlined, the Impulse fiasco has made many people wary when they hear of problems.
Trouble is, as your outlined, the Impulse fiasco has made many people wary when they hear of problems.
Not impressed with any of these posts on this thread. WISPER, you've got yourself involved in an argument, not professional as a retailer. Rise above it, give impartial advise and do not promote on this forum, as ill advised both for yourself, and the forum should not allow. Others, please stop personal attacks, unnecessary and unhelpful.
I joined this forum for generally good advise, not a slagging match. I am a current Bosch motor owner and very happy, not loyal to brand though. I have a dongle fitted and i'm a big boy now and sensible. I like the fact Bosch have a proven record, this does not mean Bosch is better than Shimano, or that matter as others would have you believe vice versa.
FAO Administrators, great to have retailers / professionals advising, but NOT ADVERTISING!. This will be the downfall of a good forum.
I joined this forum for generally good advise, not a slagging match. I am a current Bosch motor owner and very happy, not loyal to brand though. I have a dongle fitted and i'm a big boy now and sensible. I like the fact Bosch have a proven record, this does not mean Bosch is better than Shimano, or that matter as others would have you believe vice versa.
FAO Administrators, great to have retailers / professionals advising, but NOT ADVERTISING!. This will be the downfall of a good forum.
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Hi Steve A, welcome to the thread, I noticed that you disagreed with my posts condemning riding illegal bikes in the UK and disliked Crocker's post on the same subject. Would you care to say why?
I see you also ride an illegal ebike. Do you understand that if you have an accident (god forbid) and hurt someone, you leave yourself wide open to prosecution? It could cost you points on your licence and a very hefty fine.
Many of us have worked very hard for many years to ensure that EPACs are treated in the same way as standard pedal bikes, there is a lot of resistance to the current state of affairs. By riding an illegal bike you are not only putting yourself at risk but are jeopardising what we in the industry have been working so hard to protect.
I see you also ride an illegal ebike. Do you understand that if you have an accident (god forbid) and hurt someone, you leave yourself wide open to prosecution? It could cost you points on your licence and a very hefty fine.
Many of us have worked very hard for many years to ensure that EPACs are treated in the same way as standard pedal bikes, there is a lot of resistance to the current state of affairs. By riding an illegal bike you are not only putting yourself at risk but are jeopardising what we in the industry have been working so hard to protect.
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"FAO Administrators, great to have retailers / professionals advising, but NOT ADVERTISING!. This will be the downfall of a good forum."
Re: your comment to us Steve. Trade members of the forum pay a small monthly fee to support the forum which allows contact details on the sig, to suggest relevant bikes in the ‘Which e-bike should I buy’ category and also generally share their knowledge in other categories - the main thing we ask is ‘no hard sell’. (More in our t&c for anyone not sure.)
Our view is that if that a company’s products are being discussed then of course a trade member should be able to take part in that. What was being discussed here initially was the NEC event, at which Wisper were exhibiting.
Re: the rest of your post. Personal attacks aren’t constructive we agree. There will always be issues people disagree on and, generally speaking, we’re thankful that most members are respectful of others’ opinions and express differing views constructively.
Re: your comment to us Steve. Trade members of the forum pay a small monthly fee to support the forum which allows contact details on the sig, to suggest relevant bikes in the ‘Which e-bike should I buy’ category and also generally share their knowledge in other categories - the main thing we ask is ‘no hard sell’. (More in our t&c for anyone not sure.)
Our view is that if that a company’s products are being discussed then of course a trade member should be able to take part in that. What was being discussed here initially was the NEC event, at which Wisper were exhibiting.
Re: the rest of your post. Personal attacks aren’t constructive we agree. There will always be issues people disagree on and, generally speaking, we’re thankful that most members are respectful of others’ opinions and express differing views constructively.
Hi again Steve, I have read through the thread again. You will see that I was discussing the test track at the show and the point that Bosch would not allow Shimano on their sponsored track whereas Shimano didn't have a problem with Bosch sharing their sponsored track.
Eddie PJ posted "I can see why you wouldn't with the reported overheating issues suffered by Shimano." so explained why we had made the decision to use The Shimano E8000 rather than the Bosch CX on our eMTBs. I don't think I got into a "slagging match" as you call it, I simply tried to explain why we made and are sticking to our decision to use what we consider to be the best components for the job.
Shimano have had problems as have Bosch, Brose and I am certain most of the other motor manufacturers, the only one that I have not seen any issues reported on (until today re the terminals) is the Yamaha system.
Before we decided to use the Shimano E8000 system we spent a lot of time in face to face talks with them both at shows and in our Kent offices. We are completely satisfied that they have resolved any old issues with the motors.
I would like to repeat yet again that we don't have any issues with the Bosch system. Jeremy Crook our new NSM worked for Magura for six years promoting and selling Bosch motors from South Africa to Norway. Of course he loves the Bosch system and we are currently developing City and Trekking bikes for the 2019 season utilising Bosch motors.
Jeremy knowing both Bosch and Shimano systems very well indeed, insisted we use the Shimano E8000 on our mountain bike range. As well as riding for Team GB many moons ago, Jeremy was also a top flight competition mountain biker. In his opinion the Q factor of 175mm and the possibility to utilise standard MTB length rear stays, coupled with the light weight and the ability to program the power via the Shimano app made the choice an obvious one. A bike equipped with the E8000 simply handles better than one fitted with the CX. Especially around the tight twists and turns associated with true off roading.
For road or trail use where such nimble riding isn't so important we will be using the cheaper Bosch motor. It's a good motor and makes sense.
All the best, David
Eddie PJ posted "I can see why you wouldn't with the reported overheating issues suffered by Shimano." so explained why we had made the decision to use The Shimano E8000 rather than the Bosch CX on our eMTBs. I don't think I got into a "slagging match" as you call it, I simply tried to explain why we made and are sticking to our decision to use what we consider to be the best components for the job.
Shimano have had problems as have Bosch, Brose and I am certain most of the other motor manufacturers, the only one that I have not seen any issues reported on (until today re the terminals) is the Yamaha system.
Before we decided to use the Shimano E8000 system we spent a lot of time in face to face talks with them both at shows and in our Kent offices. We are completely satisfied that they have resolved any old issues with the motors.
I would like to repeat yet again that we don't have any issues with the Bosch system. Jeremy Crook our new NSM worked for Magura for six years promoting and selling Bosch motors from South Africa to Norway. Of course he loves the Bosch system and we are currently developing City and Trekking bikes for the 2019 season utilising Bosch motors.
Jeremy knowing both Bosch and Shimano systems very well indeed, insisted we use the Shimano E8000 on our mountain bike range. As well as riding for Team GB many moons ago, Jeremy was also a top flight competition mountain biker. In his opinion the Q factor of 175mm and the possibility to utilise standard MTB length rear stays, coupled with the light weight and the ability to program the power via the Shimano app made the choice an obvious one. A bike equipped with the E8000 simply handles better than one fitted with the CX. Especially around the tight twists and turns associated with true off roading.
For road or trail use where such nimble riding isn't so important we will be using the cheaper Bosch motor. It's a good motor and makes sense.
All the best, David
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