NCM Venice Plus

[Jimmeh]

Hello!
Until recently I had an unassisted bike (bobbin daytripper) that was a real beast to ride probably because it was a quite highly geared 3 speed.

Over the last year or so I had some test rides on various ebikes. It made a huge difference to how much fun it is to ride and the distances I feel comfortable riding so I decided that I needed to get one. I eventually decided on an NCM Venice Plus [https://leoncycle.co.uk/NCM-Venice-Plus-28-Trekking-E-Bike-250W-48V-16Ah-768Wh-Battery-black]. I got the Venice because I wanted a commuter type bike and I got the Plus mainly because I wanted hydraulic brakes and the additional gearing range although the bigger battery is definitely nice to have too. Also having motor cutoffs on both brakes just means there’s one less thing to think about during an emergency I guess.

The bike arrived very quickly and setting it up was very easy, or so I thought. After about 20 miles of riding I noticed a sudden and distinct change in the feel of the pedals and the noise they were making. I was close to home so when I got back I had a look at the bottom bracket had somehow come undone. I guess it was never tightened up properly and I didn’t think to check when I setting up the bike. I don’t currently have any bottom bracket tools so I called a mobile bike repair guy who was luckily able to come and fix it a couple of days later. I also emailed Leon cycles (who sell NCM bikes in the UK) but I have yet to receive a reply. Since then I’ve done about another hundred miles riding (keeping a close eye on things) and the bike has been absolutely fine thankfully.

Overall the bike rides very nicely and it’s great to feel like you have the whole city at your fingertips.

Pros
* The bike components and frame itself are very high quality
* The motor is powerful and has taken me up all the local hills at 10mph+
* The price for these high quality parts was very reasonable although it seems to have gone up by about £150 since I got mine so maybe not so much anymore
* The bike rides very nicely. Feels very stable and controllable

Cons
* I am not very happy about the bottom bracket issue and I am even less happy about being completely ignored by the company for support
* Something about the pedal assist levels feels a bit off but maybe that’s because I did most of my test riding with torque sensing crank motors and this is a cadence based rear hub. I am getting used to it
* Spending that much on a bike without being able to test ride it is a nerve wracking experience and probably not recommended especially as it seems that getting a refund from this company would be a struggle
* The rear rack is mounted quite far forward so it’s difficult to fit a pannier that your heel won’t hit when turning the pedals
* The lights aren’t great. The rear light is just some cheap and flimsy feeling clip on reflector/led thing that would cost about £1.50 on eBay and the front light does at least run off the main battery has a really terrible and mushy feeling button to turn it off and on

Overall I am very happy with the bike and I hope to be able to do 90% of my travelling with it. I am concerned about what will happen when things go wrong but I’m not afraid to get stuck in with repairs myself.

 

[vfr400]

Regarding the pedal assist levels, and in case you don't know how they work, there are 18 different levels. There are three levels of power that you can select before the ride and 6 levels of assistance that you can select during the ride. They work together to influence how much power you get.

The three power levels limit how much current the controller can give, which affects the motor's torque. Torque is what you feel as power.

The 6 assist levels all have the same amount of current (set by the three power levels), but they have different speed limits, so if you're going at 4 mph, you won't see any difference between the 6 different levels. As you approach the speed limit in each level, the current ramps down, so you can see differences in power when in that zone.

As an example, going 10 mph in level 2 on eco setting, the current is fixed at say 5 amps max by the eco setting, but you're in the zone where it's ramping down, so only getting 3 amps. When you change to level 3, the ramp is shifted up the speed range, so you get the full 5 amps again. If you wanted the full current for hill climbing, you'd have to change the eco setting to sport mode to get something like 15 amps or three times the power.

 

[Jimmeh]

Regarding the pedal assist levels, and in case you don't know how they work, there are 18 different levels. There are three levels of power that you can select before the ride and 6 levels of assistance that you can select during the ride. They work together to influence how much power you get.

Thanks, that’s useful information. I can see a mention of these power levels in the manual but no information on how to change it. I guess that’s in the settings menu and I need a password to change it?

 

[vfr400]

Thanks, that’s useful information. I can see a mention of these power levels in the manual but no information on how to change it. I guess that’s in the settings menu and I need a password to change it?

It's a normal user setting - something like press and hold "set" button until something flashes, "set" button short press changes what flashes, "+" and "-" buttons change the setting.

There's something in here if you can figure it out, otherwise search for "Bigstone C600 pdf".

http://equalizerelectricbicycles.com/manuals/Equalizer_C600_manual.pdf

 

[Fat Rat]

Hi welcome to the site

 

[DBye]

The menu to change between the Eco/Normal/Power settings on the NCM moscow in in a hidden menu., I'd guess it is the same for the Venice.

Press and hold + & - until you're prompted to enter a code.
Enter 8018 using +/- keys and press set to progress to the next digit. (there may be different codes, you can try such as 8088, 8007, 0512, 1512, 8036, 8778 which I've seen mentioned elsewhere).
Press set to access the menu.

Pressing set lets you access menus to change the power setting, and mph/kmh. On the moscow it shows the top speed/wheel size but these are not changeable. You may find that you select Eco/Power, but the display still shows "normal". However, re-entering the menu shows that the change has been made.

 

[vfr400]

The menu to change between the Eco/Normal/Power settings on the NCM moscow in in a hidden menu., I'd guess it is the same for the Venice.

Press and hold + & - until you're prompted to enter a code.
Enter 8018 using +/- keys and press set to progress to the next digit. (there may be different codes, you can try such as 8088, 8007, 0512, 1512, 8036, 8778 which I've seen mentioned elsewhere).
Press set to access the menu.

Pressing set lets you access menus to change the power setting, and mph/kmh. On the moscow it shows the top speed/wheel size but these are not changeable. You may find that you select Eco/Power, but the display still shows "normal". However, re-entering the menu shows that the change has been made.

I thought this adjustment is in front of the code, not behind it. Can you confirm that?

 

[DBye]

I thought this adjustment is in front of the code, not behind it. Can you confirm that?

I confirm I am only able to access the power adjustment in the secret menu on the NCM Moscow Plus.

 

[vfr400]

I confirm I am only able to access the power adjustment in the secret menu on the NCM Moscow Plus.

That's really daft because it's a user setting that you'd want to change for different rides. What's the point of having three power levels if you can't change them? It would be a bit of a pisser if your new bike came set to eco.

 

[Gavin]

It would be a bit of a pisser if your new bike came set to eco.

Definitely for the end user. But a good way for a manufacturer/ supplier to improve component life and thus reduce warranty claims....

 

[DBye]

The bike came set to normal. I agree it is a pain. Part of me is looking forward to the controller going pop and then having an excuse to move to a KT. When I bought it I'd hoped it would be set up more similar to the Oxygen S-Cross. I'm still happy with it though.

 

[jokskot]

Although there are 18 combinations of assistance there is considerable overlap between help offered by the three Power levels which are behind the password together with the 6 assistance levels which are readily selectable on the display. In practice I think most riders will select and store one power level and vary the assistance.
In practice I have set the power to normal and don't change it, but rather vary the assistance level between 3 and 5, depending how energetic I feel on the day, but maintain this setting for the duration of the ride. Persons fitter than me will probably do much the same on the Eco power setting and those let fit perhaps use the highest power setting. The gears are for coping with the changing terrain.

 

[Nealh]

I found on the Oxygen kit with the same system Power level 1 was fine and only used assist 2 - 4 in the main.

 

[vfr400]

I found on the Oxygen kit with the same system Power level 1 was fine and only used assist 2 - 4 in the main.

The Oxygen has the same LCD and the same settings, except the power settings are accessible all the time.

Although there are 18 combinations of assistance there is considerable overlap between help offered by the three Power levels which are behind the password together with the 6 assistance levels which are readily selectable on the display. In practice I think most riders will select and store one power level and vary the assistance.
In practice I have set the power to normal and don't change it, but rather vary the assistance level between 3 and 5, depending how energetic I feel on the day, but maintain this setting for the duration of the ride. Persons fitter than me will probably do much the same on the Eco power setting and those let fit perhaps use the highest power setting. The gears are for coping with the changing terrain.

There's no overlap because it's 3 levels of power and 6 levels of speed. Going by feel, it's something like 5 amps max for eco, 10 amps max for normal and 15 amps max for power. The "normal" setting of 10 amps or whatever it is wouldn't be enough if you're heavy and have moderate hills to deal with. 10 amps at 48v is equivalent to 13.3 amps at 36v.

Has anybody got any idea, what the actual max currents are? According to the manual, each segment is 2 amps up, and 6 segments = 12 amps. On "normal" power, what's the most segments you can light?

 

[Nealh]

Somewhere I still have the DASKIT/Oxygen c600 lcd and the trunk cable somewhere, must dig it out one day and put it on ebay.

 

[Jimmeh]

The menu to change between the Eco/Normal/Power settings on the NCM moscow in in a hidden menu., I'd guess it is the same for the Venice.

Press and hold + & - until you're prompted to enter a code.
Enter 8018 using +/- keys and press set to progress to the next digit. (there may be different codes, you can try such as 8088, 8007, 0512, 1512, 8036, 8778 which I've seen mentioned elsewhere).
Press set to access the menu.

Pressing set lets you access menus to change the power setting, and mph/kmh. On the moscow it shows the top speed/wheel size but these are not changeable. You may find that you select Eco/Power, but the display still shows "normal". However, re-entering the menu shows that the change has been made.

Yes, it was in this hidden menu for me. The passcode was 8018. Tbh now that I’m used to it I think I will just leave it in power.

 

[jokskot]

"There's no overlap because it's 3 levels of power and 6 levels of speed. Going by feel, it's something like 5 amps max for eco, 10 amps max for normal and 15 amps max for power. The "normal" setting of 10 amps or whatever it is wouldn't be enough if you're heavy and have moderate hills to deal with. 10 amps at 48v is equivalent to 13.3 amps at 36v.

Has anybody got any idea, what the actual max currents are? According to the manual, each segment is 2 amps up, and 6 segments = 12 amps. On "normal" power, what's the most segments you can light? "

I disagree.
To this user ECO and Assist 6 give a similar feel and performance to NORMAL and Assist 4.
I find the difference between TURBO and NORMAL is marginal, though the motor is somewhat noisier on turbo.
So far as the power display is concerned, both TURBO and NORMAL can show all the power bars; ECO goes up to five bars but never higher whatever the demand

 

[vfr400]

To this user ECO and Assist 6 give a similar feel and performance to NORMAL and Assist 4.

They might feel the same at some speeds, but there is a different max speed between level 4 and level 6, and the low speed current is higher on normal than it is eco, so you get different acceleration.

You could use the argument that when you're pedalling at 30 mph, all 18 settings are the same!

 

[Jimmeh]

The light for my bike broke at the weekend. It still comes on briefly if I wiggle the cable but I can’t get it to stay on.
I emailed ‘Leon Cycle’ on Saturday night and I wasn’t expecting much after my last support request but they emailed me back today and said they will send me a replacement light! Hopefully that will arrive later this week and I’ll be able to have a look at the old light and see what made it break.

 

[Nealh]

Might not be the light, could be a break in the wire.