My Second Brompton E-Conversion

dingrpdl

Pedelecer
Apr 21, 2012
78
16
Hong Kong
My first Brompton conversion was completed a few months ago with a Freedom Ebikes kit I ordered online. You can read the original conversion notes I made here. Since then, I have been using that first Brompton as a 'test bed' for my second Brompton conversion project.

I began work on the second Brompton a week ago after the last major component I ordered - the motor and wheel - arrived. As most of the conversion is similar to the first build, I will only highlight the major differences in the second build. As with the first one, this Brompton will be used only for short-distance errands within my home community where I need electric-assist for steep slopes.


PAS vs Throttle

I flip-flopped between going down the PAS-only route vs PAS+throttle or throttle-only. In the end, I decided on a minimalist approach with a throttle-only setup like I had on my first Brompton. I chose a thumb-throttle as it seemed more natural and comfortable to me than a twist grip one.


Wheel and motor

I initially tried to order a built motor and wheel from Freedom Ebikes. But they never responded to my order request, for some reason. I found their communication somewhat spotty anyway from my first experience ordering the kit for my first Brompton. It was just as well they didn't reply as I was able to source the wheel and motor for a fraction of the price Freedom was going to charge me.

I ordered the 80mm Tongxin motor - the original so-called 'Nano' motor, not the newer Goldant one - from Outrider in China. The motor was USD80 (GBP52). And I decided to get them to build the entire wheel as it would only cost USD35 (GBP23) for the CR18 rim, spokes and labour. The order took more than five weeks to ship. I was very patient and I did 'prod' them along the way but repeatedly got the excuse that their factory was very busy. The truth was probably that they gave low priority to single orders from individuals. In the initial communication, I said I wanted the 260pm, 250W, 36V Tongxin motor. But I received a 180W motor instead. A quick check of the final purchase order (that I signed and agreed to) showed that the motor power was not specified. So it was partly my fault for not catching that. After waiting five weeks, I certainly wasn't going to return it and wait an indefinite amount of time for a new motor and wheel! Besides, the motor power output is determined by the controller and the main difference between the 180W and the 250W motors is probably the gauge and length of wire using in the motor windings.

And as luck would have it, the CR18 rim came drilled for a Presta valve because I didn't specify that. Fortunately, I had the correct-sized bit to enlarge it for a Schrader valve. As anyone who has tried to put a tyre on a 349-sized CR18 rim knows, it is a real PITA. Having had difficulties with this on my first Brompton conversion, I armed myself with both the VAR tyre lever as well as the Simson Tyre Mate. Did these help? Nope! After struggling for a long time (something like an hour), I managed to get the tyre on. But I pinched and punctured the tube in the process. I was too exhausted to take the tyre off again. And I didn't have a tube repair kit. So I brought it to the local bicycle store. The technician did it in five minutes flat. They didn't bother patching the tube and charged me only HKD50 (GBP4) for a replacement tube and labour.


KU63 Controller

I bought the KU63 controller from BMSBattery.com. It costs only USD15 (GBP10) each so I got two. I wired it for sensorless operation. When I first connected the controller to my original Brompton for testing (replacing the controller from Freedom Ebikes), I could not get it to work with the throttle. It turns out that I had to snip one wire on the controller board to disable the PAS Start feature (which I didn't ask for). This sort of thing sometimes makes ordering direct from China a crap-shoot. For those interested, here is the link to the thread I started on the Endless-Sphere Forum: KU63 Controller problem

IMG_7252.jpg

The KU63 controller is shipped with the current limit set to 15 Amps. By shaving the current shunt on the circuit board, I was able to reduce the current limit to about 8.3 Amps. That limits the power of the motor to about 300W peak at a nominal voltage of 36V.

IMG_7357.jpg


Anti-spark

The Freedom Ebikes kit I installed on my first Brompton had Anderson Powerpole connectors which gave a healthy spark when you connected the battery to the controller and the capacitors in the controller charged up. There are several anti-spark strategies that are used by others. One method involves a transistor circuit to limit the current during the initial connection. A simpler one involves making an initial connection through a resistor and then making the main connection after. In keeping with my desire to keep things simple, I came up with an adaptation of the second method using a DPST switch, a single resistor and the 'Enable' input of the KU63 controller. The switch also serves as a 'Master' switch to turn the controller on/off.

IMG_7493.JPG IMG_7472.jpg

1. With the switch in the 'OFF' position, connecting the battery will allow the controller to pre-charge in a fraction of a second without a spark. The KU63 controller remains in standby state drawing less than 2mA after the capacitors are charged.

2. Turning the switch 'ON' will bypass the resistor and make the main current connection as well as turn the controller on via the 'Enable' input.

The pre-charge resistor can be anything from about 50 Ohms to 500 Ohms. And it can be a low-wattage resistor as it does not have to carry the main current. The switch does have to be able to carry the main current. I used one rated for 10 Amps.


Battery pack

I bought two LiFePO 6s1p 2.3Ah packs from A123RC.com and connected them in series to make the equivalent of a 2.3Ah 12s1p pack. I am not proud of the wrapping job I did on the pack so I will not show the completed pack here!

IMG_7230.JPG


Chainstay hook

After experimenting with various setups, I decided keep the original chainstay hook arrangement with minor mods to the motor axle cap supplied with the wheel. To protect the chainstay, I wound a length of spiral cable wrap around it and secured it with zip ties. The result is a snug hook action.

IMG_7429.jpg IMG_7431.jpg IMG_7435.jpg


Throttle, brake levers and shifters

I replaced the original Brompton brake levers with BMX levers because the mounting block on the original levers took up so much space on the handlebar and left too short a grip length with the thumb-throttle unit installed. I also switched the two-speed derailleur and three-speed hub shifter units to the opposite sides. This allowed the more often used three-speed hub shifter with the left hand while simultaneously using the right hand on the thumb-throttle. Ergon grips were added for comfort.

IMG_7488.jpg IMG_7535.jpg


Wiring harness

In my wiring harness, I used 2mm and 3.5mm banana connectors popular with RC hobbyists. They appear to make wiring joins with good contact while allowing disconnection if I need to change components in the future. Sugru was also great in encasing joins.

IMG_7482.jpg IMG_7479.jpg

For the main connection between the controller and bicycle, I used Neutrik 6-pin connectors - three pins for the motor and three for the throttle. The pins are rated for 7.5 Amps each which is more than adequate for this setup. The connector housing diameter is such that a section of an old handlebar grip would slip on snuggly for protection against knocks.

IMG_7538.jpg


Conclusion

Sourcing parts on my own instead of buying a kit saved me a lot of money. It cost me less than half of what I paid for the Freedom Ebikes kit. And it allowed me to choose the exact parts I wanted. However, it was time consuming. For those that are new to the e-conversion scene, the route you choose will really depend on how much your time is worth to you.


The future

I plan to make changes to my first Brompton to make the wiring neater like it is on this second one. The KU63 controller has a Cruise Control function. I had it temporarily enabled when testing the controller on my first Brompton and I quite like the feature. However, enabling the Cruise Control feature means a brake lever cutout switch is necessary.

IMG_7497.jpg IMG_7528.jpg
 
Last edited:

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Wow what an excellent job you have done. I love that switch arrangement.

Re the battery I am not sure if you have done so already but I put a 15amp fuse in the circuit.




You should be able to see the blade fuse at the top. This is my original pack I now use the A123 System ready made up packs like you have. Hardly any difference in cost from making up your own 6s1p packs and very neat.

I also like you umbilical plug.

Also saw these on ebay if you want to save on some soldering/wiring. If you look in Smiths you can also get a soft pencil case for about a fiver which the pack fits into perfectly.

** ADDED LINK http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390428294663?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

PS I notice you changed your brake as well as the thumb throttle will not fit with the stock brake handles.


Regards

Jerry
 
Last edited:

dingrpdl

Pedelecer
Apr 21, 2012
78
16
Hong Kong
Wow what an excellent job you have done. I love that switch arrangement.

Re the battery I am not sure if you have done so already but I put a 15amp fuse in the circuit.
Thanks, Jerry. Yes, I plan to take apart the pack and put in a blade fuse like you have on yours.


This are my original pack I now use the A123 System made up packs like you have. Hardly any difference in cost from making up your own 6s1p packs and very neat.
...
If you look in Smiths you can also get a soft pencil case for about a fiver which the pack fits into perfectly
I actually found these batteries from the link you sent me a few months ago.

Good idea about the pencil case! I just found a toiletries case that I got free on a flight and the pack fits in there perfectly.

IMG_7545.jpg


Richard
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Just another note reading your details the 80mm motor is 180W as opposed to the 100mm one which is I think 200W or 250W.

Nice case though they have to be pretty soft and flexible to fit in the back pocket.


PS re the tyre fitting and the CR18 I hate the damn things. I can fit them now and take them off but it is really hard to do WITHOUT damaging the steel rim bead plastic coating. This then exposes the steel bead which rusts and eventually punctures the tube.

All my new motors for 16" rims will now be 28h so I can fit them in the stock Brompton 28h rim.

I also added the ebay link above to those niffy series connectors for the batteries.

Regards

Jerry
 
Last edited:

dingrpdl

Pedelecer
Apr 21, 2012
78
16
Hong Kong
Just another note reading your details the 80mm motor is 180W as opposed to the 100mm one which is I think 200W or 250W.
The motor I got with my Freedom Ebikes kit installed on my first Brommie was an 80mm motor as well but had 250W stamped on it. Maybe they don't make them anymore.

IMG_7114.jpg

Richard
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Hmm I wonder if it is correctly labelled.

Reading their web site they now quote their motors are 160W ?

Jerry
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Just checked both my 80mm wide Nano and Goldant motors. Nano labelled 250W like yours and Goldant 200W.

Regards

Jerry
 

dingrpdl

Pedelecer
Apr 21, 2012
78
16
Hong Kong
Brompton motor swap

I have been running the Brompton with the Tongxin 'Nano' motor for almost a year now and it has been running flawlessly. But for various reasons, I decided to replace it with the new lightweight Tongxin/Keyde motor.

The motor I got was the 98SWXR36 36V 260RPM 250W unit drilled for 28 holes. The motor has a 98mm diameter as compared to 120mm on my original Tongxin 'Nano' and is about 1.4 lbs lighter as well.

I laced it up to my original Brompton rim using a 1-cross pattern. I must say that I am glad to be rid of the Sun CR-18 rim as it was a b***h to get tyres on and off the Sun rim. The new rim was trued right on my Brompton fork as I do not have a truing stand. I used a zip tie as a roundness guide and the brake blocks as a lateral truing guide.

motor compare.jpg truing.jpg

The new motor has the cable exiting on the right side as opposed to the left side on original Tongxin motor. The upside to this is that the cable is easier to route and no longer gets in the way of the chainstay hook which is on the left side of the fork. The cable exits the motor at the base of the spindle where the spindle enters the motor. With the motor in place on the fork, the cable then comes out the dropout slot on the fork. I did encounter a minor problem with this. The cable diameter is about 5mm. But the fork dropout blades on the Brompton are only about 3mm thick. So I had to fashion a 'C' washer on the inboard side (i.e. between the motor and the fork) to allow the wire to come out. For other bikes with thicker (at least 5mm) dropouts, this will not be a problem.

C-washer.jpg motor cable exit.jpg fork cable exit.jpg mounted.jpg

Folding the bike is a little easier as the mass on the front end is almost 2 lbs less than before and it is easier to swing the front half into the stowed position.

I took it for a quick test spin and found the motor a little noisier under power and coasting unpowered compared to the original Tongxin 'Nano' which was almost inaudible. I am using a KU63 controller and a thumb-throttle unit on the bicycle and it works well with the new motor. The KU63 controller has its current shunt shaved down to only allow about 8.5 Amps which is all I really need to help me up the slopes.

Richard
 

patpatbut

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 25, 2012
860
79
Hi Richard,

Very nice conversion with lightweight motor. Will you able to fit the original brompton wheel with 80mm dropout + extra washers?

Pat
 

dingrpdl

Pedelecer
Apr 21, 2012
78
16
Hong Kong
Hi Richard,

Very nice conversion with lightweight motor. Will you able to fit the original brompton wheel with 80mm dropout + extra washers?

Pat
Do you mean the original rim and hub without the motor? If so, then it is possible if you squeeze the forks back to their original width. If you just add washers, the spindle will probably be too short to allow the nuts to go on.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Great job and to see more of us moving from the original Tongxin to the smaller Goldant.

I have my controller set to about 7 amps max and still get a little slipping. I am wondering if I have a fault with the throttle ? I have delay current at startup set to five seconds now!

I hate the Sun CR18 rims for fitting tires to.

Ps love that they have the wire exiting the other side and not through the shaft though as always I see that brings other challenges. Also note you will find that this smaller motor uses less battery capacity (see my other post) for the same journey than the original Tongxin. Of course the trade off is that you are giving it more help. Noise wise as you say a little more (still pretty quiet) though less on a 16" wheeler than my Dahon 20" wheeler.

Jerry
 
Last edited:

dingrpdl

Pedelecer
Apr 21, 2012
78
16
Hong Kong
I have my controller set to about 7 amps max and still get a little slipping. I am wondering if I have a fault with the throttle ? I have delay current at startup set to five seconds now!

....

Also note you will find that this smaller motor uses less battery capacity
I have had it out going up fairly steep inclines and I have not noticed any slippage. Perhaps the clutches have been improved on these later designs.

On the last ride, I stuck on my wattmeter on and did notice that it did seem to use less battery energy for the same trip.

Richard
 

patpatbut

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 25, 2012
860
79
Hi Richard,

Where did you buy this motor? Any link?

Thanks
Pat
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Its been linked loads of times in these various threads

http://www.keyde.com/?do=product&lang=en&event=view&ids=07

Its a special one off narrow 80mm wide one for folding/small wheeled bikes. Does not come with the controller build in so you will need to buy a lyen/ecrazyman controller and reprogram it or do what Richard did.

They do supply a stock external controller which well optimised for the motor but it's pedelec only.

PS it comes in different colors silver, black etc and maybe even others if you ask them.

Regards

Jerry
 
Last edited:

patpatbut

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 25, 2012
860
79
Its been linked loads of times in these various threads

http://www.keyde.com/?do=product&lang=en&event=view&ids=07

Its a special one off narrow 80mm wide one for folding/small wheeled bikes. Does not come with the controller build in so you will need to buy a lyen/ecrazyman controller and reprogram it or do what Richard did.

They do supply a stock external controller which well optimised for the motor but it's pedelec only.

PS it comes in different colors silver, black etc and maybe even others if you ask them.

Regards

Jerry
Hi Jerru,

can I use KU65 controller for this motor? Is 15A giving too much amps for this motor?

Thanks
Pat
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
can I use KU65 controller for this motor? Is 15A giving too much amps for this motor?

15 amps is too much. You can use the controller providing you can limit it to around 8 amps.

Jerry
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
You can shave a bit off the shunt in the controller with a Dremmel or file to reduce the current of a KU65.
 

patpatbut

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 25, 2012
860
79
How do I measure the Amp via the shunt? Can I use voltmeter?

thanks
Pat
 

faversham222

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 19, 2013
18
0
is this kit on ebay any good

130922255772


























Item specifics

Condition:
New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging (where packaging is ... Read moreabout the condition
Type: Electric Bike
Wheel Size: 16 inches






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patpatbut

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 25, 2012
860
79
hi faversham222

This kit has been discussed in cheap brompton conversion thread.

To answer your questoin, the 16" wheel from this kit is not the same as bromton 349mm rim.

You can get this kit but need to rebuild the wheel.

Pat