my Quando battery

[RobNYC]

So I purchased my bike on April 1, 2008 which means I've had it 4 months.

I generally use it 6-7 days a week, maybe 6-8 miles each way with occasional days off or longer rides. Mosy of my riding in Manhattan is pretty flat, with the exception for one hill, runs about 1 long city block. I couldn't give you the steepness of the hill but it is fairly steep, for Manhattan.

My battery was apparently manufactured in August 07 although the bike was not purchased til April 08.

For a couple of months, my battery just plowed right thru everything with just occasional yellow lights coming on intermittently towards two months of use on a steep hill. Now the yellow light comes on intermittently almost immediately after a charge. Stays on almost continuously only 3 miles into a ride.

My warranty expires in two months. How do I know if my battery is functioning adequately under the warranty?

 

[flecc]

It's a difficult thing to say Rob.

It's normal for the yellow light frequency to increase all the time the battery ages on these Li-ion batteries, and even on the test battery I've praised highly that I've been punishing for 7 months now, the yellow frequency has been increasing. It can now show immediately after a charge on the first slight slope I reach, and this is on a battery that's 40% larger capacity than previously so at an advantage.

However, the power remains good, the bike performing almost as it did when the battery was new, and that reassures me. The batteries from eZee in 2006 and into the early months of 2007 not only had the yellow incidence raised but the power dropped off sharply as well, with the battery cutting out completely on climbs.

It's those symptoms that are the real worry, but if your bike doesn't show a marked loss of power and it's not cutting dead on hills, the battery manufacturer will regard it as serviceable.

In theory lithium batteries can lose up to 33% of their capacity in each year, though these later batteries haven't been losing that much. However, yours will have lost some in the year from manufacture, and that capacity loss is what triggers the yellow to come on earlier and earlier all the time, since it's a measure of content. That shows in the bike's range which continuously gets shorter as the battery ages. There'll come the time when the yellow will go on immediately you open the throttle after a charge and stay on while the throttle is open even at full speed. Eventually it's the loss of range that usually determines when the battery is no longer of use to an owner, meaning the short journeys owner gets the longest life of course.
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[RobNYC]

Thanks, Flecc.

I called my dealer, nycewheels.com , to see what measure they use to determine if a battery is serviceable under the 6 month warrantee. The young man who answered the phone told me I could drop off the battery for 3 days before the 6 months is up and they will test it.

He couldn't tell me what criteria they use to determine it's serviceability and I asked that somebody who might have more information give me a call back but I haven't heard from anyone yet.

 

[flecc]

It's promising that they are prepared to do that Rob, better than many dealers would do. I dare say they'll probably test on a comparison basis against a known good battery, possibly of a similar age, rather than have any sophisticated equipment for that. However they may have a CycleAnalyst or similar which can measure the battery capacity over the duration of a ride on a bike that has that fitted.

There's no way of accurately predicting if a lithium battery will drop voltage enough to start cutting out in the near future though, since that's a function of the chemical content of the cells within. However, these later batteries haven't been prone to that in the way they were.
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[RobNYC]

However, these later batteries haven't been prone to that in the way they were.
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So you're including Lithium-ion batteries manufactured by Phyllion in Aug 07 in the later, better class?

 

[WaiWonChing]

Chief eZee Operator

So I purchased my bike on April 1, 2004 [/COLOR --

Is it 2008 or 2004 ? Is it 4 years or 4 months ?

We supply battery testing equipment to every distributor, the capacity of the battery is measured with a discharge rate of 5 amps. Likewise Nycewheels does the battery test on an appropriate equipment .

W W Ching

 

[flecc]

Hello Wai Won. Rob's first date given of 2004 was a typing error. Later in his first post he typed it correctly. After a private message from Rob I checked the date of battery manufacture for him and his battery was made in August 2007, so is a year old now. However, he didn't buy the bike from Nycewheels until April 2008, so he's had four months use only.
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[RobNYC]

Sorry for the confusion. Battery was manufactured in August 07, I purchased bike in April 08.

 

[keithhazel]

Sorry for the confusion. Battery was manufactured in August 07, I purchased bike in April 08.

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doesnt that kinda suck when its not the use from the battery that kills it but the age, you buy a brand new bike and already the battery is 7 months old


go ahead and break my heart now Flecc and tell me the age of mine..

XH370-1OJ

phylion DC37.0 V

 

[RobNYC]

Ok.... I must confess. I am a COMPLETE idiot.

I found out what was "wrong" with my battery. My tires were underinflated!

That's right. I could tell they were kind of soft. But i had no idea how underinflated they were. When I used a pressure gauge, I got a reading of 15-20 psi. They are supposed to be inflated from 40 to 60 psi!!!

I inflated them to 60 and took the bike out. It was like a new bike. Yeah, the yellow came on more frequently than when i got the bike 4 months ago, but nowhere near as much. It was zippy and responsive.

In fact, when I got home today after work, haven taken the bike on a 5.71 mi. commute (no big hill today), I forgot to put the battery on the charger and had to take the bike out again this evening for a 6+ mile ride. The yellow light came on intermittently but the bike remained zippy and responsive throughout. So I put 12 miles on the bike (I weigh 190 lbs.... what's that 13.6 stone?) on the one charge and it was fine. Just occasional yellow lights.

So yeah, I am an idiot and am sorry for wasting others' time here.

 

[flecc]

Don't worry Rob, no apology needed, it's very easy to get into a state of following the one thing that's obvious, the meter, without looking at the unconnected things.

What matters is that things are ok now.
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[flecc]

Keith, that's only the type number. I need the whole serial number beginning with a J.
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[keithhazel]

Keith, that's only the type number. I need the whole serial number beginning with a J.
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sorry for slow reply Tony, only this didnt show up on my srceen as a new quote...sorry i missed the number its so small i totally never saw it or the light made it invisible..

thanks Tony

 

[flecc]

It is easy to miss Keith, it's really tiny. Do you have it for me though?
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[keithhazel]

It is easy to miss Keith, it's really tiny. Do you have it for me though?
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thats strange i typed it the last time but its gone...

its JGJGAG100108

X-FILES STUFF THIS IS..

 

[flecc]

You might have had the number highlighted and a touch of any key would the make it disappear Keith.

Your battery was made on 17th July 2007, the 108th that day. This is part of the improved series of batteries, free from the premature failures that earlier batteries suffered from.
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[keithhazel]

You might have had the number highlighted and a touch of any key would the make it disappear Keith.

Your battery was made on 17th July 2007, the 108th that day. This is part of the improved series of batteries, free from the premature failures that earlier batteries suffered from.
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thank you Tony for you as usual excellant knowledge, although thats great news there still remains the point that my self and most other e-bike buyers are buying something new which isnt new as in the case of deradeing its age of battery....being that they are dyeing from their birth something should be done to give us buyers a brand new battery with a brand new bike, after all £300 surely warrants a battery that is new which should then give us peace of mind for a year...like many others befor me i have a battery which is older then the warranty i would be given on one if it was brand new .....whats to be done Tony, you are usually on the ball with ideas, all others welcome for ideas here as this affects all of us and the inpact on e-bike popularity as sure it would put off prospective buyers...

 

[flecc]

It's not possible Keith. From order, the shipping etc delays total about 12 weeks minimum from China to an importer. Then the importer can't possible be expected to sell all of a consignment immediately, so it's only reasonable for them to carry items in stock for up to 8 weeks at least before the last of a batch leaves them for a customer. Add that together and you have the best part of 5 months, and that's in an ideal world, which our generally slow selling e-bike world certainly isn't. After all, everything else made in the Orient that you buy is also at least as old.

However, the rate of deterioration is nothing like as fast initially with a newly manufactured battery as it is with one that's been put in to service by conditioning. In addition, some newer types have now been developed to have a sleep mode in which the battery doesn't lose anything to speak of, so the manufacturers have already acted.

There is a simple solution though, dispatch of individual customer batteries by courier in air freight, and the battery I'm using came to me that way. Of course the customer would have the cost of that added to an already very expensive battery, and that cost would more than cancel out any deterioration saving, so not worthwhile.
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[keithhazel]

It's not possible Keith. From order, the shipping etc delays total about 12 weeks minimum from China to an importer. Then the importer can't possible be expected to sell all of a consignment immediately, so it's only reasonable for them to carry items in stock for up to 8 weeks at least before the last of a batch leaves them for a customer. Add that together and you have the best part of 5 months, and that's in an ideal world, which our generally slow selling e-bike world certainly isn't. After all, everything else made in the Orient that you buy is also at least as old.

However, the rate of deterioration is nothing like as fast initially with a newly manufactured battery as it is with one that's been put in to service by conditioning. In addition, some newer types have now been developed to have a sleep mode in which the battery doesn't lose anything to speak of, so the manufacturers have already acted.

There is a simple solution though, dispatch of individual customer batteries by courier in air freight, and the battery I'm using came to me that way. Of course the customer would have the cost of that added to an already very expensive battery, and that cost would more than cancel out any deterioration saving, so not worthwhile.
.

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basically we get a raw deal dont we, what if our battery was say 10 months old or even more ?, mine was only 6, the thread starter here was 7 and thats just 2 of us who have asked you for dating...but as you say with long time shipping there is nothing we can do...i do like the idea of sleep mode however as that would solve the problem...are any of these actually in use at the moment ?..if i was going to guess i would say the ones with 2 year warranty..but im a rotten guesser..lol...touch wood and this is tempting fate i seem to have a decent battery, although i have not done no more then 550 miles on it so hardley wearing it out in the 7 months months i have had it.... i did however notice a lot of yellow on indicator after only a few miles the other day going up a long gradient headwind..not a steep hill mind, although as not done that type befor i cant be sure if degrading, i will have to do a ful discharge on flat terrain to see how close to the original 22 miles i got on power alone....although i have to say just sat there for 90 minutes at what seems like a snails pace is sooooooooooooooooo boring....Quando is definatly a workhorse and not a pleasure riding bike unless you want to sit doing 15mph with your legs getting idle and fat .....truly i would like to have a pro connect in the future as i do like to pedal and the increased speed will be great, however riding on the roads seems less fun all the time, if it isnt the state of the road near the kerbs with constant drain covers sunk far below the road level,or badly done tarmacing which is patchy, or even worse when they re surface the roads here and there is a wave of ashfelt/grit nearing the kerbs which can be very hazardous... biking should be so much fun but it isnt half as much as it should be..........

thanks for your battery ageing and i best start a piggy for a new one, if im fortunate i might get 6 more full power months and theni will expect it going downhill...i can wish heavily cant i

 

[flecc]

The latest Panasonic battery on the Kalkhoffs has the sleep mode facility Keith.
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