My First Electric Kit Conversion 250W

[Zhelion]

Hello everyone, I am new here and I would like to hear your recommendations and advice.
In 1 or 2 weeks I will start a job as a Deliveroo delivery man, and I would love to mount a legal 250W electric kit on a sturdy steel bike. I haven't bought the bike yet but I already have an idea of what I need.
I would like you to recommend a good electrical kit for:

- Routes of 50-70 miles a day almost every day of the week (reliable and low maintenance)
- Easy to replace broken parts
- All the possible power within the legal (20A controller? ¿)
- I will only use it on the road and it is almost all flat
- Waterproof as it rains a lot in London

I have heard that the rear hubs are the most reliable if a good battery is put in (since I don't want to drag the bike without running out of battery). That is why I would also like you to recommend a GOOD BATTERY FOR LONG DISTANCES.

Thanks!

 

[Woosh]

XF08C with 17.5AH downtube battery:

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-177-xf08c-17ah/xf08c-rear-hub-kit-with-17ah-battery

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#xf08ckit

 

[Zhelion]

XF08C with 17.5AH downtube battery:

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-177-xf08c-17ah/xf08c-rear-hub-kit-with-17ah-battery

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#xf08ckit

Thanks you Woosh.
One question I do not understand what types of pedal sensor there are (Hollowtech, Seat Post, Left right ...)?

And any other recommendations? I would like to compare products and choose the best for me

 

[Zhelion]

Thanks you Woosh.
One question I do not understand what types of pedal sensor there are (Hollowtech, Seat Post, Left right ...)?

And any other recommendations? I would like to compare products and choose the best for me

And wich is the range for battery in Watt hour? 800Wh?

 

[Woosh]

And wich is the range for battery in Watt hour? 800Wh?

the Watt Hours: 36V * 17.5AH = 630WH.
Battery consumption depends on how much you pedal, roughly speaking, about 10WH per mile at 15 mph.
It is not pleasant to ride on the bottom 20% of battery's capacity, so the ballpark useful range is about 50-55 miles. You may need a second battery to swap over if you go much more than 55 miles a day.

One question I do not understand what types of pedal sensor there are (Hollowtech, Seat Post, Left right ...)?

That depends on the bottom bracket of the donor bike. We supply the most suitable pedal sensor for your bike.
Most often, the normal right side pedal sensor with split disc work.

This is a split disc, you see it attached to the chainring with sticky pads.
When it all works, you make it more permanent either with epoxy glue or screws.
The hole in the middle makes the fitting much easier.

If you have a square taper bottom bracket, you may use the left side pedal sensor if you have enough space between the crank and the bottom bracket.
The left side pedal sensor is easier to fit because you don't need to remove the bottom bracket, you only need to pull the left crank, drift the sensor in place and refit. Most old bikes have a suitable bottom bracket, new bikes don't.

send me pictures of the bottom bracket area, I'll make suggestions.

 

[vfr400]

You don't need a steel bike, but if you can find a cheap one, that's ideal. Don't buy a new bike. Look for a used one with a triangle frame and disc brakes. There are always some on Ebay, Facebook, Gumtree, etc.

 

[Zhelion]

You don't need a steel bike, but if you can find a cheap one, that's ideal. Don't buy a new bike. Look for a used one with a triangle frame and disc brakes. There are always some on Ebay, Facebook, Gumtree, etc.

Cheap hybrid bikes all have a steel frame, right?
He looked for bicycles of that type but even second hand they are quite expensive. About 200 pounds up.
I have also been told on reddit by Deliveroo riders that 250W is too little power to do the job, but more power is illegal ... So I'm a mess.

 

[Zhelion]

the Watt Hours: 36V * 17.5AH = 630WH.
Battery consumption depends on how much you pedal, roughly speaking, about 10WH per mile at 15 mph.
It is not pleasant to ride on the bottom 20% of battery's capacity, so the ballpark useful range is about 50-55 miles. You may need a second battery to swap over if you go much more than 55 miles a day.



That depends on the bottom bracket of the donor bike. We supply the most suitable pedal sensor for your bike.
Most often, the normal right side pedal sensor with split disc work.

This is a split disc, you see it attached to the chainring with sticky pads.
When it all works, you make it more permanent either with epoxy glue or screws.
The hole in the middle makes the fitting much easier.

If you have a square taper bottom bracket, you may use the left side pedal sensor if you have enough space between the crank and the bottom bracket.
The left side pedal sensor is easier to fit because you don't need to remove the bottom bracket, you only need to pull the left crank, drift the sensor in place and refit. Most old bikes have a suitable bottom bracket, new bikes don't.

send me pictures of the bottom bracket area, I'll make suggestions.

Thanks Woosh, all very well explained
although I think the battery is very short. It's a good Panasonic brand, but you should invest even more money in another battery and I don't know if you could. I'd like to see if there are any more viable options.

 

[vfr400]

Cheap hybrid bikes all have a steel frame, right?

told on reddit by Deliveroo riders that 250W is too little power to do the job

Usually aluminium. I don't think I've ever seen a steel one, except relics from the past.

250w doesn't mean anything. A 250w hub-motor easily gives enough power if you run it at 48v and 17 amps. I guess that the deliveroo riders on Reddit know very little about how ebikes work.

 

[Zelige]

If you're after steel frames, keep an eye out for cheap On-One bikes. They do a lot of steel builds. I've picked up two On-One Inbreds for £100 or so in the least 2 years. Beautiful bikes.

Oh, hello all! Been lurking for a while. Just ordered a Tongsheng kit from AliExpress to fit to a Raleigh Twenty.

 

[Zhelion]

Usually aluminium. I don't think I've ever seen a steel one, except relics from the past.

250w doesn't mean anything. A 250w hub-motor easily gives enough power if you run it at 48v and 17 amps. I guess that the deliveroo riders on Reddit know very little about how ebikes work.

Can you recommendation any 250W 48V rear hub kit?

 

[Zhelion]

If you're after steel frames, keep an eye out for cheap On-One bikes. They do a lot of steel builds. I've picked up two On-One Inbreds for £100 or so in the least 2 years. Beautiful bikes.

Oh, hello all! Been lurking for a while. Just ordered a Tongsheng kit from AliExpress to fit to a Raleigh Twenty.

I want steel frame because I have read that to work as a rider you need a strong bicycle with a steel frame jaja

 

[Pedaluma]

If you're after steel frames, keep an eye out for cheap On-One bikes. They do a lot of steel builds. I've picked up two On-One Inbreds for £100 or so in the least 2 years. Beautiful bikes.

Oh, hello all! Been lurking for a while. Just ordered a Tongsheng kit from AliExpress to fit to a Raleigh Twenty.

In my opinion a hub motor will not be satisfactory. My neighbor had a 350W geared hub conversion for two-days and made me remove it and install a mid-drive. Bikes with only a cadence sensor lag, surge and lurch. A 350W mid-drive will out climb a 750W hub drive here in the North Bay Mountains of the SF Bay Area of California. And a 10.5Ah 36V battery on a superior 350W mid-drive with cadence sensor will out last a 17.5 48V on a 750W hub-drive. The red bike is another friend's 750W hub drive. The blue 350W mid-drive runs his into the ground. In my opinion you should get two light weight batteries that are interchangeable. These can be swapped anytime so a back-up contingent is always charging whilst you are away from base. If you were to search for the attached images you may find similar images of clean builds. A gull out flies a turkey. Steel bikes offer the best ride. Try to find one with an internal hub of gears and a coaster brake for wet conditions. The chainline will always be straight and drop the rear cog to 16-T.

 

[Pedaluma]

In my opinion a hub motor will not be satisfactory. My neighbor had a 350W geared hub conversion for two-days and made me remove it and install a mid-drive. Bikes with only a cadence sensor lag, surge and lurch. A 350W mid-drive will out climb a 750W hub drive here in the North Bay Mountains of the SF Bay Area of California. And a 10.5Ah 36V battery on a superior 350W mid-drive with cadence sensor will out last a 17.5 48V on a 750W hub-drive. The red bike is another friend's 750W hub drive. The blue 350W mid-drive runs his into the ground. In my opinion you should get two light weight batteries that are interchangeable. These can be swapped anytime so a back-up contingent is always charging whilst you are away from base. If you were to search for the attached images you may find similar images of clean builds. A gull out flies a turkey. Steel bikes offer the best ride. Try to find one with an internal hub of gears and a coaster brake for wet conditions. The chainline will always be straight and drop the rear cog to 16-T.

The Tongsheng is great. I just saw your update when I hit post. In my opinion you the Raleigh 20's wheels are too small. Something like a Pashly would be cool and take the bumps. 28" wheels would be ideal with a steel frame.

 

[vfr400]

In my opinion a hub motor will not be satisfactory. My neighbor had a 350W geared hub conversion for two-days and made me remove it and install a mid-drive. Bikes with only a cadence sensor lag, surge and lurch. A 350W mid-drive will out climb a 750W hub drive here in the North Bay Mountains of the SF Bay Area of California. And a 10.5Ah 36V battery on a superior 350W mid-drive with cadence sensor will out last a 17.5 48V on a 750W hub-drive. The red bike is another friend's 750W hub drive. The blue 350W mid-drive runs his into the ground. In my opinion you should get two light weight batteries that are interchangeable. These can be swapped anytime so a back-up contingent is always charging whilst you are away from base. If you were to search for the attached images you may find similar images of clean builds. A gull out flies a turkey. Steel bikes offer the best ride. Try to find one with an internal hub of gears and a coaster brake for wet conditions. The chainline will always be straight and drop the rear cog to 16-T.

You clearly have very little or no experience of the sort of hub-motor systems we use. Just about everything you said about hub-motors there is untrue. There's no way in the world that your 350w crank motor can match the climbing power of a 500w Bafang BPM running at 48v and 25 amps. I doubt that it can even match a 250w Xiongda.

Lag and surge are characteristics of the control system, not the motor.

Also, I can guarantee that your crank motor will not be running trouble-free after 6000 miles, like most hub-motors can.

 

[FrodoBaggins]

I built my bike using a Yose power rear kit 350W and an old Specialized hybrid.
Technically illegal but I doubt anyone cares much.

I have to admit so far its brilliant. Better than an older ebike I bought a few years back.
I do pedal a bit, but heart rate doesnt get much over 100 so the worst part is saddle sore on long rides.
I tend to set it at about level 3, which keeps you around 15mph minimum.

So one thing you might want to consider is security. I deliberately built my bike as cheap as possible in case it gets stolen. I tried to keep it looking like a "normal" bike.
I actually use it for getting about so I need to leave it in places.
I always remove the battery and put a dirty old rag over the display. I also make no special effort to clean it. So first glance it looks pretty crappy.

A decent D-lock and dont leave it anywhere silly all seem to help.

As a deliveroo rider I am sure you will be going to a wide variety of places and having to leave it unattended at times.
Might be worth thinking about, even a lower spec ebike is better than no ebike.

 

[Zhelion]

I built my bike using a Yose power rear kit 350W and an old Specialized hybrid.
Technically illegal but I doubt anyone cares much.

I have to admit so far its brilliant. Better than an older ebike I bought a few years back.
I do pedal a bit, but heart rate doesnt get much over 100 so the worst part is saddle sore on long rides.
I tend to set it at about level 3, which keeps you around 15mph minimum.

So one thing you might want to consider is security. I deliberately built my bike as cheap as possible in case it gets stolen. I tried to keep it looking like a "normal" bike.
I actually use it for getting about so I need to leave it in places.
I always remove the battery and put a dirty old rag over the display. I also make no special effort to clean it. So first glance it looks pretty crappy.

A decent D-lock and dont leave it anywhere silly all seem to help.

As a deliveroo rider I am sure you will be going to a wide variety of places and having to leave it unattended at times.
Might be worth thinking about, even a lower spec ebike is better than no ebike.

I will have to leave it unattended but it will only take a few minutes. It is true that I am also afraid of it being stolen, I have been thinking about it, but doing this job with a normal bike is too hard for me. Thanks for the tips.

 

[Zhelion]

You clearly have very little or no experience of the sort of hub-motor systems we use. Just about everything you said about hub-motors there is untrue. There's no way in the world that your 350w crank motor can match the climbing power of a 500w Bafang BPM running at 48v and 25 amps. I doubt that it can even match a 250w Xiongda.

Lag and surge are characteristics of the control system, not the motor.

Also, I can guarantee that your crank motor will not be running trouble-free after 6000 miles, like most hub-motors can.

That's exactly what I understand about hub motors, which are more reliable and last a lot more miles, and that's what I need. I have not yet found a 250W 48V hub motor that convinces me.

One question, are they very difficult to assemble? What tools would you need? I do not have experience.

 

[vfr400]

I have not yet found a 250W 48V hub motor that convinces me.

One question, are they very difficult to assemble? What tools would you need? I do not have experience.

Hub motors don't have a voltage as such. The voltage stamped on them is only so that they can state the speed. The motor constant (Kv) is the significant characteristic. A 260 rpm 36v motor with a Kv of 7.22 would be identical in all respects to a 48v 338 rpm one. In other words, you can run a motor at any voltage you want as long as you adjust the current to suit. The only difference it makes is the maximum speed, which affects the efficiency.

Which motor are you talking about re assembly? They're all easy if you know how.

 

[Pedaluma]

Hub motors don't have a voltage as such. The voltage stamped on them is only so that they can state the speed. The motor constant (Kv) is the significant characteristic. A 260 rpm 36v motor with a Kv of 7.22 would be identical in all respects to a 48v 338 rpm one. In other words, you can run a motor at any voltage you want as long as you adjust the current to suit. The only difference it makes is the maximum speed, which affects the efficiency.

Which motor are you talking about re assembly? They're all easy if you know how.

Do you intend to build a wheel with a hub motor? Or buy a wheel with a hub motor? Building a wheel is more advanced.

Wheelbuilding

A tutorial on how to choose parts for, build and true a spoked bicycle wheel

www.sheldonbrown.com

We are doing a Covid-safe group ride this morning here in Petaluma, California. Group rides show the differences between approaches. The hub motor bicycles deplete their batteries quickly. For the 64Km planed I am taking a 1.38Kg battery. If you were a Nautical Engineer, where would you place weight on a sailboat? Perhaps look into a wheel lock.