More Seizures

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,427
30,749
Bike kills dog. Rider of bike has no obligation to report the accident.

There's no specific law that requires a cyclist to report an accident with a dog. The Road Traffic Act 1988 doesn't apply to cyclists in the same way it applies to motorists.
Ministerial permissions add layers of complexity:

A rider of a legal EAPC is a cyclist, and the DfT (in the person of Minister Clare Perry) consider SVA type approved EAPCs with throttles to still be EAPCs in Great Britain and therefore bicycles ridden by cyclists.

BUT, in law they are then Motor Vehicles, regardless of the usage permission, so the rider is a driver in law so must report a dog accident they are involved in.

Potentially more troublesome are layers of permissions. For example a cyclist can use Minister Paul Boateng's year 2000 permission to take to the pavement out of genuine fear of a difficult traffic situation. But what happens if they are if they are riding a throttle equipped EAPC using Minister Clare Perry's permission for it to still be considered a bicycle under the Type Approval law exemption (h).

Thus, for a motorised bicycle, a limited exemption from the law given by that law, then that exemption contravened by a Minister to ignore an EAPCs new status as motor vehicle in law, and then it using a quite different Minister's permission to be ridden in contravention of the law on pavement use.

One for a very senior court to work out and rule on, to determine if the Rider / Cyclist is Not Guilty, OR has to pay the £20 fixed penalty for cycling on the pavement, OR is subject to a much more severe penalty for driving on the pavement.
.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: matthewslack

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,796
3,597
Telford
Bike kills dog. Rider of bike has no obligation to report the accident.

There's no specific law that requires a cyclist to report an accident with a dog. The Road Traffic Act 1988 doesn't apply to cyclists in the same way it applies to motorists.
That's your interpretation. Some lawyers and Google AI disagree with you.
 

smifee

Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2017
70
61
76
Chandler's Ford
Here is one for the armchair lawyers:-

What if you run over your own dog?

I was riding my e-trike with my dog and 13yr old grandson in the front cargo box.

Grandson wanted to cuddle the dog as we went along & unclipped the restraining lead.

Dog jumped out of the box and I ran over her.
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,796
3,597
Telford
Here is one for the armchair lawyers:-

What if you run over your own dog?

I was riding my e-trike with my dog and 13yr old grandson in the front cargo box.

Grandson wanted to cuddle the dog as we went along & unclipped the restraining lead.

Dog jumped out of the box and I ran over her.
A dog's a dog, even though it has a dog's life. Dogs' lives matter!
 

portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
756
225
"The rider of the bike is described as being between 14 and 18 years old, white, of slim build, and wearing dark clothing. The bike was black. "

That's half of Portsmouth...innitt....
 
  • :D
Reactions: AndyBike and flecc

lenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 3, 2023
3,791
1,124
Rider Caught Pedalling at 30mph on Illegal Modified E-Bike in Northamptonshire
"Northamptonshire’s Roads Policing Team (Northants_RPT) shared details of the unusual encounter on social media, saying the rider had raised eyebrows after appearing to pedal at 30mph uphill, jokingly suggesting they might be in training for the Tour de France."
 

Baz the balloon man

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 17, 2024
263
10
I find that hard to believe.
My friend has a Trek e bike that had Two motors on Bosch mid drive and a hub
he had the on road off road switch he claimed from 0 to 60 it was faster than a sports car Porsche .
I never saw it working as it ended up under the wheels of a Range Rover thankfully he was not hurt it’s now scrap .

Out of interest what would be the fastest speed an e bike could be made to travel at on the flat ?
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,796
3,597
Telford
[QUOTE="Baz the balloon man, post: 740398, member: 46605"

Out of interest what would be the fastest speed an e bike could be made to travel at on the flat ?
[/QUOTE]
Around 200 mph for a legal EApC. After that, it depends on your definition of an ebike.
 

lenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 3, 2023
3,791
1,124
Modified illegal e-bikes seized in Preston city centre
"Seven illegal e-bikes have been taken off Preston’s streets.

Preston Police seized the bikes which had been modified meaning they were being ridden without the proper documentation needed to be roadworthy.

Video footage released by police showed the bikes being wheeled from the Flag Market and Friargate areas of the city."




 

lenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 3, 2023
3,791
1,124
Biker taken to hospital after smash with van on Edison Road
" A spokesperson for Wiltshire Police said: "We responded to a road traffic collision involving a van and an adapted electric bike in Edison Road, Swindon, at 8.30am this morning (26/03).

"The bike rider sustained non-life-threatening injuries.

"The van driver was reported for careless driving and the bike rider, who had a provisional licence and no insurance documents, was reported for several offences under the Road Traffic Act." "
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,796
3,597
Telford
Biker taken to hospital after smash with van on Edison Road
" A spokesperson for Wiltshire Police said: "We responded to a road traffic collision involving a van and an adapted electric bike in Edison Road, Swindon, at 8.30am this morning (26/03).

"The bike rider sustained non-life-threatening injuries.

"The van driver was reported for careless driving and the bike rider, who had a provisional licence and no insurance documents, was reported for several offences under the Road Traffic Act." "
Things have definitely changed. I think it was only 5 years ago that I was posting that there was no evidence that anybody had ever been prosecuted for riding an illegal electric bike. Now it happens every day.

I had to check my folder before going out on it today because I couldn't remember whether I had done all the settings on the LCD.
 

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
2,025
887
Things have definitely changed. I think it was only 5 years ago that I was posting that there was no evidence that anybody had ever been prosecuted for riding an illegal electric bike. Now it happens every day.

I had to check my folder before going out on it today because I couldn't remember whether I had done all the settings on the LCD.
Well of course it is FAR easier for lazy police forces to appear to be doing something by putting their fatter policemen in a city centre so they can block people on an ebike and grab them, isn't it. These kinds of 'officer's would stand little chance of catching the much more serious menace of the burglars, phone snatchers, drug pushers, and knife wielding thugs who beset many of our major cities. They can run faster than the tubby cops for a start, so they would be lucky to grab them. Far easier too than catching the bike thieves and the motorbike thieves. Report your motor cycle stolen or your bicycle and you would be unlikely ever to even speak to an actual policeman. You would get a call centre lady, who will give you a crime number and nothing else.

Both of my ebikes are perfectly legal in terms of maximum speed, and no power assist without pedalling. They also meet the rules on maximum continuous power. As you know and have mentioned, the Argos folder has a controller rated at 4 amps with an 8 amp maximum. At 36 volts, this means at its continuous rating it draws 144watts and at its maximum rating 288 watts - both input figures, not output. Factor in the efficiency rating of about 80% for power conversion and that bike's maximum power (not continuous) is about 230 watts, and its continuous rating, half of that - a fact you attested to when it would not pull you up a hill without serious input by yourself. THAT bike though has a misprinted label on it, as does your own, saying its maximum output power is 375 Kw - ridiculous - about 500 horse power. I think the label probably refers to the watt hours of the battery, but gets that wrong too with the wrong unit used.

Since some of these police (according to press reports seen here) are judging compliance by having a printed label stating max continuous power 250 watts (which as I understand it is only required for manufactured ebikes sold as ebikes since about 2020, they could easily be grabbing bikes which meet the speed, power and pedalling requirements, like mine do. Penalising them simply because of lack of a label.

It looks as if without good cause they are treating any kit conversion as an illegal bike.
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,796
3,597
Telford
Well of course it is FAR easier for lazy police forces to appear to be doing something by putting their fatter policemen in a city centre so they can block people on an ebike and grab them, isn't it. These kinds of 'officer's would stand little chance of catching the much more serious menace of the burglars, phone snatchers, drug pushers, and knife wielding thugs who beset many of our major cities. They can run faster than the tubby cops for a start, so they would be lucky to grab them. Far easier too than catching the bike thieves and the motorbike thieves. Report your motor cycle stolen or your bicycle and you would be unlikely ever to even speak to an actual policeman. You would get a call centre lady, who will give you a crime number and nothing else.

Both of my ebikes are perfectly legal in terms of maximum speed, and no power assist without pedalling. They also meet the rules on maximum continuous power. As you know and have mentioned, the Argos folder has a controller rated at 4 amps with an 8 amp maximum. At 36 volts, this means at its continuous rating it draws 144watts and at its maximum rating 288 watts - both input figures, not output. Factor in the efficiency rating of about 80% for power conversion and that bike's maximum power (not continuous) is about 230 watts, and its continuous rating, half of that - a fact you attested to when it would not pull you up a hill without serious input by yourself. THAT bike though has a misprinted label on it, as does your own, saying its maximum output power is 375 Kw - ridiculous - about 500 horse power. I think the label probably refers to the watt hours of the battery, but gets that wrong too with the wrong unit used.

Since some of these police (according to press reports seen here) are judging compliance by having a printed label stating max continuous power 250 watts (which as I understand it is only required for manufactured ebikes sold as ebikes since about 2020, they could easily be grabbing bikes which meet the speed, power and pedalling requirements, like mine do. Penalising them simply because of lack of a label.

It looks as if without good cause they are treating any kit conversion as an illegal bike.
No need to worry. I'm an expert at getting ebikes back from the police. One letter from me has them quivering with fear. Just let me know if they give you any hassle, and we can share the compensation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ghost1951

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
2,025
887
No need to worry. I'm an expert at getting ebikes back from the police. One letter from me has them quivering with fear. Just let me know if they give you any hassle, and we can share the compensation.
It's very kind of you to offer to share your litigant expertise :)

I've just done a battery test - range test I mean. I had thought the wee Argos ridiculo-bike was losing range, though I thought it might be the colder weather. I think it was just that. I did 18 miles on the higher speed setting, up hill and down dale (though not the worst of climbs, and it was still going well. The temperature outside is 12 degrees C, and it still had two lights most of the time.- though it did sag down to one led on a very nasty short hill right at the end. Ten minutes after getting back, I put the battery on the meter and it is showing 35.4 Volts, so I think that is pretty good. Total mileage is now 647 miles. No issues but the snapped off pedal - which as I said before, had been damaged when the bike fell off its stand while parked on a steep hill. Plotaroute shoes a total ascent of 978 feet on the route. I don't think you can expect much better from an 8.2 Ahr battery
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Peter.Bridge

Benjahmin

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 10, 2014
2,629
1,770
70
West Wales
Things have definitely changed. I think it was only 5 years ago that I was posting that there was no evidence that anybody had ever been prosecuted for riding an illegal electric bike. Now it happens every day.
And it's this that is starting to concern me.
1 My trusty Ezee motor is unmarked.
2 On the stand it registers a maximum speed of 19mph without a cutoff (though this is with an uncalibrated cycle computer as it only has a led display).
3 It has a full acting throttle (only for hill starts guvner).

The bike and kit were bought in 2014 prior to the January 2016 law change. However the presumption now seems to be that if it's a kit bike it's illegal, as in the oft repeated phrase, 'An illegally modified e-bike'.

The wifes bike is a 2014 Big Bear. Whilst very firmly cutting off at 15.5mph it does have a full acting throttle and a large front hub.
Probably not going to be bothered around here but we do take them on holiday to various towns and cities.
 

AntonyC

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 5, 2022
354
156
Surrey
Label vs plate, throttle cut-off speed, use prior to conversion, ministerial waivers, 2016.... Anyone care to draw up a flowchart for inspecting a bike correctly, with references? A laminated copy would make essential EDC, along with the squirrel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ghost1951