More powerful and legal e-bikes on the way!!!

[flecc]

In news that will especially delight partially disabled riders, it looks like the EU parliament have given clearance for progress on more power. The proposal is for no limit to the power, just the speed limit of 25 kph retained. Very sensible.

As you'll read, it's a little way off yet, but it is coming:

More power for e-bikes

Of course, we really need EU approval for throttles as well, but that still seems unlikely and this new measure will probably make it even more unlikely.
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[flecc]

I see this having the following effects once implemented.

1) 250 watt bikes will become a minority since most have hill climb ability at the forefront of their needs.

2) The current and capacity needs of more powerful motors may make the lightness of current Li-polymer batteries preferable to LiFePO4, given the greater weight/bulk of the latter.

3) The capacity needs of more powerful motors will reduce the demand for bottle batteries with their low capacity.

4) The e-bike market should expand considerably, especially in hilly areas.

 

[andyh2]

This great news. I hope it is passed. It will make cargo bikes useable in hilly areas and more practical for heavier loads.

I hope the light weight options don't disappear completely.

It should mean it will be possible for manufacturers to build for European and American markets and tweak the electronics to meet local limits.

Be interesting to see what's on offer for 2013.

 

[NRG]

I would have though throttles would be of more use, especially for partially disabled riders. Peak power now, within the current 250W+10% continuous rating, is more than enough to climb hills.

 

[Scottyf]

Good news if you ask me.
Now you can build a bike to do 0 to 25kph in half a second and a wheelie machine legally.

I would have thought all that will change was the controllers and possibly battery chemistries with higher "C" rates to compensate the extra draw. But in saying that as the top speed is still limited it wouldn't eat into much range anyway.

As once your up to speed the battery draw drops down.


I'm more interestested to see what it would do to the crank driven bikes?
As above though it makes the heavier cargo bikes and trikes and tandems more usable.

Also means you can get a wider choice of motor without infringing on legalities.

 

[Mussels]

I would have though throttles would be of more use, especially for partially disabled riders. Peak power now, within the current 250W+10% continuous rating, is more than enough to climb hills.

It sure isn't enough power for the hills near me unless you want to climb them very slowly.
I suspect it's a case of once bitten twice shy with throttles after the way the FS1E abused the old moped laws.

 

[flecc]

I would have though throttles would be of more use, especially for partially disabled riders. Peak power now, within the current 250W+10% continuous rating, is more than enough to climb hills.

With fit riders in their younger or middle years and average hills it may well be.

Otherwise I have to agree with Mussels, it isn't enough for steeper hills, especially with heavier riders and/or any degree of disability or age reduction in ability. A minimum of a 500 watts rating should just about cope, and the higher power German class tends to support that, 500 watts being the de facto standard of manufacturers there.

There's also the safety factor of adequate climb speed. It's much safer to climb at over 12 mph, so nearer to the speeds of other traffic, than crawl up in a wobbly fashion at 5/6 mph.

However, I do agree on the need for throttles for some, especially those with leg related disability.

 

[Scottyf]

But don't most 250w kits pull close to 500w on a climb anyway???
500w+ makes life very easy to climb a majority of hills without breaking sweat.

 

[lemmy]

I'm 67 but I must be stronger than I thought since I don't struggle even on the steepest hills. I hope the more powerful motors wouldn't serve to shorten the range of ebikes by adding power that I don't want.

It would become necessary to have some control of the power output of the motor but I get the impression that all attention will be given to the needs of the less strong riders, to the detriment of the rest.

My experience in other fields of more powerful motors is that they burn more juice regardless of any theory to the contrary.

 

[mike killay]

I suppose that British e-bike sellers could ask the UK government to get a derogation for throttles because these will be important if sales are to increase.
Most potential new e-bike purchasers are totally familiar with throttles, it is the pedelec that they do not understand.
In any case, the Chinese etc. will continue to make throttles and a thriving after market could emerge.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm going to make a fortune selling foot-operated throttles.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi

I have a design for a throttle you clinch between your BUM cheeks


Frank

 

[eddieo]

Hi

I have a design for a throttle you clinch between your BUM cheeks


Frank

Have you carried out the risk assessment I wonder?

what happens when stopped at lights and you break wind for instance

 

[Cyclezee]

It should mean it will be possible for manufacturers to build for European and American markets and tweak the electronics to meet local limits.

This is already the case with eZee conversion kits which are made for a worldwide market. Power output is restricted for the EU and some other markets, but can be quite simply de-restricted for off road use where restrictions apply.

 

[flecc]

But don't most 250w kits pull close to 500w on a climb anyway???
500w+ makes life very easy to climb a majority of hills without breaking sweat.

As said though, 500 watt rating. That means their peak power will also double.

I must say I'm surprised at the negativity being expressed in places above, do you like restrictions?.

Good pedelecs already have control of their power via their torque sensors, excellent examples being Panasonic unit e-bikes, the current Giant e-bikes and the BionX motors, and I've no doubt this will be true for Bosch and Daum also.

Neither will this be a law saying e-bikes have to have a certain power, it's just a removal of a completely unnecessary restriction, allowing for a wider range of e-bike powers. As I've so often posted before, the power necessary is a matter for designers, emphatically not for legislators. Speed limits are their province.

The market will settle down to a wider choice to suit far more people, but as I've said, I think the lower power bikes will become a minority. My reasoning is based on the wider market, not just the narrow interest minority of this forum which is mostly enthusiast based. Remember, for every member in this forum there are around 25 e-bikers out there, most of whom are utility users who often don't want to pedal. As one major supplier once said to the A to B magazine editors, "My customers won't pedal".

Even among forum enthusiast members there are already a number with 500 watt and even 1000 watt rated e-bikes owned.

 

[Scottyf]

I hate restrictions and blue tape. Ok it stops us killing ourselves. But the 250w limit was a bit feeble on standard kits.
It didn't take much to get a simple kit where most riders would really want it.

In saying that though the 250w limit was nice if your on a country slow ride or leisure ride. But for commuting it wasn't good enough.
I for one will be glad it's gone. It also opens up the Market for other types of drives and really powerful off road climbing ability.

 

[indalo]

Very welcome though it may be in some ways, I foresee a blurring of the lines between bicycles, ebikes and mopeds/light motorcycles. Will more power mean tighter regulations; helmet, reg plate, compulsory insurance?

I don't really see any need for a legal higher level of permissible power output as that which applies currently is adequate. If the only reason for extra power is to afford higher speed, whether it's uphill or on the flat, then it's clearly unnecessary.

What's interesting though is that there exists a huge body of opinion in the UK opposed to any legislation emanating from Brussels, some forum members amongst that number. Of course, when it comes to personal interests, we hear cries for equality with some of our European neighbours, specifically in terms of power limits on ebikes or higher speed limits on our roads.

The issue of throttles on ebikes is an interesting one as there is clearly a need for certain people. Motor cars can be converted in a variety of ways to accommodate different types of physical disability and no-one who is able-bodied would want an adapted car. Surely, anyone registered as disabled ought to be permitted a bicycle adapted according to need? My point is that rather than see throttle control outlawed, it should be permitted in the same way that blue badges are provided.

As far as I'm aware, high-end ebikes in the UK are a rare breed so I'm unsure as to who might be the target market for any new-fangled, super-powerful models. They'll be cheap.....right? Of course, perhaps all the usual suspects will simply be offered with an alternative motor at a marginally higher price.

2012 could be a great year for ebike enthusiasts......if the Germans provide some machines for export to the UK. I shall exercise a little patience as my current ride continues to do all I require of it and it's just so comfortable.

Indalo

 

[eddieo]

You.....you .....wouldn't let it lie!

welcome back Indalo

 

[flecc]

Very welcome though it may be in some ways, I foresee a blurring of the lines between bicycles, ebikes and mopeds/light motorcycles. Will more power mean tighter regulations; helmet, reg plate, compulsory insurance?

I don't really see any need for a legal higher level of permissible power output as that which applies currently is adequate. If the only reason for extra power is to afford higher speed, whether it's uphill or on the flat, then it's clearly unnecessary.

What's interesting though is that there exists a huge body of opinion in the UK opposed to any legislation emanating from Brussels, some forum members amongst that number. Of course, when it comes to personal interests, we hear cries for equality with some of our European neighbours, specifically in terms of power limits on ebikes or higher speed limits on our roads.

No extra conditions as the article makes clear, it's just a proposal to remove the unnecessary power limit from the existing pedelecs. The power required is for designers to decide, not lawyers. It's also made clear that the measure is not for extra speed, so the question of helmets, insurance etc does not arise.

I don't think any user can legitimately say that the present 250 watt limit is sufficient. They cannot know others circumstances in terms of terrain, ability or loads carried or towed. These are matters for designers to specify and each individual to choose according to their needs.

As for the acceptance of EU regulations, it's always been clear that the EU is the British e-biker's friend:

British regulations were for 200 watts and assist limit of 12 mph. That speed was only increased to harmonise with EU regulations as the EU required, but that increase was accompanied by yet another unnecessary and British only restriction, a minimum age limit of 14 years.

EU regulations are for 250 watts and 15.5 mph assist limit, and now with a proposal to remove the power limit. They have no age limits, and they also permit high speed e-bike classes for countries which want them.

It's clear which administration has always been the better for us.
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[Scottyf]

It's true the rule for 250w watt restrictions is a bit pointless with random controllers and peaks all over the place. It was a pointless rule anyway. Least now you could run a more robust if a little more weight motor and have it kind of underpowered but running for years without a hitch.

If it wasn't for ebikes I wouldn't be looking at turning my old 2stroke motor bike into and electric beast.

I hope they do get rid of it. It's a pointless rule in the first instance.

I'm far happier and willing to use my bike knowing that it's built around me and my needs rather than someone telling me what I can and can't do.