safety concerns and warranty are shared by all manufacturers but nobody else goes as far as rendering the battery unuseable or the motor refuses a replacement battery. Could this be interpreted as a restrictive practice? There was a parallel in the early history of IBM PCs with compatible BIOSes from Phoenix and AMI.
Meeting with Bosch
- Thread starter Martin@e-bikeshop
- Start date
Given the well known and proven dangers of lithium batteries as witness the air transport bans, no court or government would support this interpretation. The right of a company to prevent any tampering or potentially risky use of alternative components would be upheld without question.
This case seems to have lots in common with the practice of using a chip to identify the toner cartridges in printers.
Article 85 of the Treaty of Rome forbids any arrangement that reduces competition without the customers getting a fair share of the benefits. In that sense, another manufacturer can possibly argue that the battery cannot be replaced by another (cheaper) unit with similar specification is a restrictive arrangement without demonstrable benefit to the customers. The software seems to prevent the use of a non-original battery.
Article 85 of the Treaty of Rome forbids any arrangement that reduces competition without the customers getting a fair share of the benefits. In that sense, another manufacturer can possibly argue that the battery cannot be replaced by another (cheaper) unit with similar specification is a restrictive arrangement without demonstrable benefit to the customers. The software seems to prevent the use of a non-original battery.
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All true Trex, but the safety defence will always succeed in such a proven danger area.
It is after all in the consumers interests to a much greater degree than a cash saving. Furthermore, the defence has the addded argument that the consumer choice remains unaffected since they can buy e-bikes with very similar power units from other manufacturers, they are not restricted to Bosch in any way.
It is after all in the consumers interests to a much greater degree than a cash saving. Furthermore, the defence has the addded argument that the consumer choice remains unaffected since they can buy e-bikes with very similar power units from other manufacturers, they are not restricted to Bosch in any way.
Yes totally agree..
When I met with Bosch the battery precautions were taken very seriously indeed. In fact a large part of my training was based around battery safety and how to deal with certain situations. I am glad Bosch take this approach, with safety the being the focus point.
Trex do know a lithium cell of this size can heat up to over 1000degrees in a matter of minutes if it is damaged. I'm sure that will be the fastest anyone has ever ridden home with this between their legs!
On a side note Bosch were sure to point out some of the ridiculous conditions they had received batteries back from end users. The most common being 2 holes in the top of the battery case about 3inches apart damaging the cells within the case.. Can you guess what caused this?
Regards
Martin
I'll take a punt at people attaching a water bottle holder?
Presumably that, rather than nailing their smartphone to it for safe keeping.
Yes to my amazement exactly that.
Riders using self tappers to attach a bottle cage.
Bosch has to try and deal with end users like this. Hence why trying to make the system as safe as possible is the main priority.
Regards
Martin
Riders using self tappers to attach a bottle cage.
Bosch has to try and deal with end users like this. Hence why trying to make the system as safe as possible is the main priority.
Regards
Martin
Battery water drainage - this is brilliant, thanks for making me smile on this dull Sunday afternoon Trex.
Your a star
Regards
Martin
Yes of course, this motor is tried and tested and performs well, it will also be cheaper for manufacturers to use this one over the newer style one so it will be used for sure.
Regards
Martin
Yes it doesn't say Bosch on it
However the battery case design is probably protected by Bosch, therefore no other battery would fit into the same slot..
Regards
Martin
The bike comes with 2 year warranty, the battery will last at least that long before requiring a replacement, then this issue is who can service the bike and whether another make of battery can be used. The design protection on the case does not extend to fixings but the software could be the real obstacle.
Yes true, also the BMS in the Bosch battery is quite sophisticated it makes it harder to replicate, unlike some other Chinese battery's which just involved swapping the cells. The Bosch battery is truly a work of art. Rob did you read my latest Bosch post on my blog a couple of days ago? There is a picture of a Bosch battery inside, quite interesting..
Regards
Martin
There was a guy in Germany who was buying the empty battery cases direct from Bosch, then celling them himself with Chinese cells. He was selling them at half the cost of an official replacement battery, to the buyer it looked like a brand new official Bosch battery from the outside, however Bosch noticed a few premature battery failures coming back for warranty. When they opened the cases up they were amazed to see the cheap cells inside. The guy got caught quickly as looking back through dealers account he was clearly buying more empty cases than any other dealer.
This dealer has now lost his account with Bosch. A shame he was making a quick buck, because he could make a lot more being a true dealer in the long term selling Bosch powered eBikes.
Regards
Martin
Yes, I did have a quick squint, not that the technical stuff means much to me.
I think I'm inevitably heading towards buying a spare battery for my Rose, so if you come across one at an advantageous price I could be your man.
Hi Rob,
It just so happens that I do have a spare brand new 400Wh PowerPack still in the box at my Alton store.
I'm sure if you paid me a visit this side of Xmas I may be feeling jolly and in the Christmas spirit.
This could possibly leave me at an advantageous price and maybe even a mince pie on the side
Regards
Martin
Doesn't that make all this talk of the sophisticated electronics in the Bosch system nothing more than a myth then? It mustn't be that difficult to get the Bosch system to work with a none Bosch battery set-up.
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