M5 Crash

[steveindenmark]

.........and the government is preparing to listen to the arguments for increasing the motorway speed limit!

Indalo

There is nothing wrong with increasing the speed limit. I live on the Danish/German border and regularly drive in Germany where the speed limit is much higher. To me it feels much safer in Germany than in the UK. The M5 crash will end up being caused by drivers driving too fast for the road conditions. Those accidents will happen if you reduce the speed limit to 50mph or increase it to 150mph.

I have no idea if or when the motorway speeds were last increased but I believe modern day vehicles have improved a lot since then. If you find a vehicle driving at the lawful speed on the motorway it is usually in the way of everything else.

Steve

 

[funkylyn]

There is nothing wrong with increasing the speed limit. I live on the Danish/German border and regularly drive in Germany where the speed limit is much higher. To me it feels much safer in Germany than in the UK. The M5 crash will end up being caused by drivers driving too fast for the road conditions. Those accidents will happen if you reduce the speed limit to 50mph or increase it to 150mph.

I have no idea if or when the motorway speeds were last increased but I believe modern day vehicles have improved a lot since then. If you find a vehicle driving at the lawful speed on the motorway it is usually in the way of everything else.

Steve

Totally agree......however in this case there seems to be a suspicion that it was caused by sudden black smoke blowing onto the motorway from the nearby firework display and bonfire.

Lynda

 

[flecc]

Trucks and particularly artics are the biggest problem and they are speed limited anyway. In that crash there were three of them piled into each other in a row, something so often seen in motorway crashes. The police have been increasingly turning their attention to them since their implication in both causing motorway crashes and the severity of them is becoming increasingly obvious. We've all seen them piling down the motorway at around 65 mph just a few feet apart with no forward vision and no chance of stopping their huge tonnage in time.

 

[funkylyn]

Trucks and particularly artics are the biggest problem and they are speed limited anyway. In that crash there were three of them piled into each other in a row, something so often seen in motorway crashes. The police have been increasingly turning their attention to them since their implication in both causing motorway crashes and the severity of them is becoming increasingly obvious. We've all seen them piling down the motorway at around 65 mph just a few feet apart with no forward vision and no chance of stopping their huge tonnage in time.

No, Flecc, sorry, I dont think trucks are the biggest problem......bad driving is the biggest problem on our roads , no matter what you are driving.....speeding caravans going out of control springs to my mind.

However,back to this particular crash, the 2 lorries owned by Samworth Bros.( Ginsters) have a very strong health and safety ethic....their lorries are electronically restricted to 54 miles an hour, the only way any lorry can do over 60+ miles an hour would be going downhill. this particular stretch of the M5 is very slightly uphill.
The law states a top speed limit of 60, all lorries have to be restricted , any higher speed after 30seconds shows up on the tachograph as an over speed which is picked up at their MOT's.
Lorries are restricted to 56, with some companies restricting lower than this, I believe Tesco are restricted at 52mph.

I think its unfair to always blame the lorry drivers, whilst there are always bad apples, most lorry drivers are professionals who are extremely experienced.
The police will be able to go over these vehicles with a fine tooth comb and will know categorically what speed they were doing......not so easy to check with the cars involved......

The TNT truck involved runs out of Bodmin.....all these drivers were at the start of their shift with, certainly in the case of the Ginsters lorries, no need to speed at all, they are given more than enough hours to complete their journeys.

I'm writing this as the mother of a very experienced HGV driver who personally knew one of the Ginster drivers who was tragically killed.
Lets leave it to the police to ascertain the cause of this terrible tragedy.

Lynda

 

[eTim]

It's obviously too early to tell, but it would appear that a sudden change in the driving conditions such as thick fog or smoke when travelling on a busy motorway could be a major factor and having experienced similar over the years, there is not much you can do other than to slow down and hope that there is nothing in front of you or behind you that is going to suddenly catch you out.

No matter how good or bad a driver you are, how good your forward observation and anticipation, there will be those times when split seconds can change everything and it's probably going to be out of your own control what happens next.

 

[JuicyBike]

It's no coincidence that during the recession years average motorway speed has dropped, as drivers do what they can to save money.
What has been less widely reported is the 25% reduction in accidents during the same period.
If ever there were plenty of evidence that increasing speed limits is a poor decision, it is right now, both in terms of making us a little greener and safer.

 

[carpetbagger]

It's no coincidence that during the recession years average motorway speed has dropped, as drivers do what they can to save money.
What has been less widely reported is the 25% reduction in accidents during the same period.
If ever there were plenty of evidence that increasing speed limits is a poor decision, it is right now, both in terms of making us a little greener and safer.

I agree,my next door but 2 neighbour was killed by a speeding car,20 yards from his home.....speed kills..leave the limit as it is.

 

[flecc]

I'm for the increase, the higher it's level the more spaced out vehicles become as drivers find the speed that suits them individually, rather than the speed they get compressed to by law. I don't like driving in a bunch and especially not in close proximity to trucks on motorways, so where necessary I'll speed to make space for safety reasons.

For much of my driving life there were few speed limits, mainly just the 30 mph in built up areas but unlimited on almost all open roads.

 

[carpetbagger]

although the limit is 70 most people do 80 anyway knowing they won't be prosecuted,if the limit increases to 80 then that becomes 90 unless we are going to have an influx of traffic police or speed cameras that actually work.

 

[flecc]

although the limit is 70 most people do 80 anyway knowing they won't be prosecuted,if the limit increases to 80 then that becomes 90 unless we are going to have an influx of traffic police or speed cameras that actually work.

For some only. The trouble with the 70 limit is that most cars are comfortably able to maintain up 80 mph cruising.

That's no longer true of 90 mph and higher speeds, many cars too near to their limits to be able to keep pace, so spreading out occurs, which can increase safety.

 

[JuicyBike]

I've often wondered about the cause of those "waves" of congestion that happen on motorways - a temporary halt in flow for no apparent reason. It wouldn't be anything to do with speed differentials would it? Faster drivers unable to pass slower drivers?
Call me sad, but I actually find this sort of traffic flow fascinating. It must be similar in quantifying to fluid mechanics where velocities of liquids forced together along pipes causes turbulence and effectively, blockages. The objective must be to get everything flowing at the same speed for overall volumes to increase.

 

[flecc]

The objective must be to get everything flowing at the same speed for overall volumes to increase.

In rush periods I agree, best controlled by the sort of variable limits on the M25.

But as someone who sometimes drives on the M25 at the times when volumes are very low, speed limits are inappropriate. Then, in the absence of policing, there are people who choose to drive at anything between 60 and 110 mph in respective lanes without any problems.

 

[JuicyBike]

Yes, I have to admit to planning long drives for early in the morning or late at night. But more and more I focus on the MPG than the MPH - just a bit tight fisted really!

 

[lessped]

why do you drive a Scorpio Cosworth whats wrong with a normal ford .?

 

[lessped]

Truth said Juicy .!

 

[lessped]

at 50mph the carnage would not have been so deadly ... speed does Kill ..!

 

[bode]

I actually find this sort of traffic flow fascinating. It must be similar in quantifying to fluid mechanics where velocities of liquids forced together along pipes causes turbulence and effectively, blockages.

I heard a radio programme a year or so ago in which they said that analysis based on computer modelling of traffic patterns proved just that: motorway traffic behaved according to the laws of fluid mechanics.

 

[lessped]

There is nothing wrong with increasing the speed limit. I live on the Danish/German border and regularly drive in Germany where the speed limit is much higher. To me it feels much safer in Germany than in the UK. The M5 crash will end up being caused by drivers driving too fast for the road conditions. Those accidents will happen if you reduce the speed limit to 50mph or increase it to 150mph.

I have no idea if or when the motorway speeds were last increased but I believe modern day vehicles have improved a lot since then. If you find a vehicle driving at the lawful speed on the motorway it is usually in the way of everything else.

Steve

if a car is driving at 70mph there should be no vehicle passing thats the law and that brings me full circle if the limit is raised to 80mph is that a go ahead to do 90 - 120mph dont forget the harder you are hit the harder the pain and yes cars are better but it seems to me the drivers are very much the same .!

 

[lessped]

In rush periods I agree, best controlled by the sort of variable limits on the M25.

But as someone who sometimes drives on the M25 at the times when volumes are very low, speed limits are inappropriate. Then, in the absence of policing, there are people who choose to drive at anything between 60 and 110 mph in respective lanes without any problems.

Hi Flecc it seems to me the only reason the 110mph kiddies get away with it is cos. we i.e the drivers doing the correct speed keep out of there way and let them pass hence they seem to think they are such wonderfull drivers .!

 

[eTim]

at 50mph the carnage would not have been so deadly ... speed does Kill ..!

How do you know at what speed those vehicles were travelling? Has the investigation completed and published it's results? Maybe the investigation will find that they were all driving at 50mph and this was a major factor in the pile-up, who knows at this point in time? No-one.

Hi Flecc it seems to me the only reason the 110mph kiddies get away with it is cos. we i.e the drivers doing the correct speed keep out of there way and let them pass hence they seem to think they are such wonderfull drivers .!

What is the correct speed that you would be doing? There are not many drivers that do above 100mph anyway and very few that travel 90mph+. Do you have an insight into the minds of drivers that makes them think they are wonderful at certain speeds. Do drivers travelling at 80mph think they are wonderful also? Do drivers travelling at 50mph (which could also be considered a dangerously low speed for motorways in certain conditions) think they are wonderful too?

Do you think drivers driving at the 'correct' speed should hold up drivers that want to go faster, would you not think that may cause bigger problems such as tailgating, frustration and road rage leading to more motorway incidents (maybe that was a contributing factor in the M5 crash). I don't notice many deliberate acts of drivers holding up faster drivers because they think they should be doing the 'correct' speed and when I do see it, it's usually an accident waiting to happen, so who is in the wrong there? (Both, to my mind).

Surely if a mature debate about speed is to be had, then the debate needs to be about appropriate speed and driving to the conditions rather than just speed per se?