Looking to Start Building and Selling Ebikes in My Area

[Cathal]

Ah ok. Well there goes the business plan.

 

[trex]

you can build and sell 250W e-bikes. There is currently a gap in the market, well finished bikes for less than £1,000.
Mainstream Chinese bikes importers can't get their bikes finished to German standard and nobody in the UK builds e-bikes to German standard either.

 

[Cathal]

I was thinking that could be an option. Would I be liable if my bikes were involved in an accident or would it be the customers responsibility, as long as the bike was built correctly. What kind of construction standards are there for ebike creators?

 

[trex]

you would need public liability insurance. You should create a limited company for the purpose of buying, selling and repairing bikes for this activity. It's much easier to get insurance and accumulate earnings within the limited company.

 

[craiggor]

As far as I'm aware if the manufacture has there own safety testing facility they can carry out there own safety tests.This is my own electronic interference test rig.

And pedelec forum members watch on as the load test rig is tried out for the first time.

sorry wrong pic.That was the head of the dft getting the chop.load test rig.

.

 

[flecc]

I was thinking that could be an option. Would I be liable if my bikes were involved in an accident or would it be the customers responsibility, as long as the bike was built correctly.

You'd only be liable if the product you supplied was faulty and the fault caused the accident.

What kind of construction standards are there for ebike creators?

The whole range of applicable standards is very complex. However, if you use a reputable bicycle that has been built to those standards, plus an e-bike kit from a reputable supplier that meets the UKs legal requirements, the two built together well will meet all the standards.

Here's the standards if you are interested, but all will be looked after automatically if you use pre-approved bikes and kits to build from:

Construction and Use regulations for all bicycles:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1983/1176/pdfs/uksi_19831176_en.pdf

You also need a copy of BS1727 to understand the motor and battery testing and proof of compliance stuff that supports the manufacturers data plate declaration. I can't let you have that as you need to pay for it, price £47 from this link

Each e-bike you build should have a plate attached to the bike, here's the law extract on that:

A plate securely fixed in a conspicuous and readily accessible position showing—

(a) the name of the manufacturer of the vehicle (that's you)

(b) the nominal voltage of the battery (as defined
in the 1971 British Standard) of the vehicle, and

(c) the continuous rated output (as defined in the 1971 British Standard) of the motor of the vehicle. (That's the motor rating, usually 250 watts)
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

you can build and sell 250W e-bikes. There is currently a gap in the market, well finished bikes for less than £1,000.
Mainstream Chinese bikes importers can't get their bikes finished to German standard and nobody in the UK builds e-bikes to German standard either.

If you are building to German standards there is no way you can build a new bespoke bike for under 1330 € and make a living. Sure you can put a GSM motor kit on a brand new Decathlon bike and sell it for £995 but it will still have crappy tyres and brakes far from German standards.

As soon as you try adding quality components you find yourself in the 2250 € price zone competing almost directly with the German bikes price wise. And you have a whole heap of low quality bike bits in a box that you could try and flog on e-bay (probably earning yourself a reputation as a bike thief in the process).

 

[trex]

sometime ago, I did a feasibility study on buying and selling bikes in the £300-£500 band. The idea is some customers may want to have a kit like the GSM fitted. The income stream would come from regular markup on the mechanical bike plus kit sale and fitting charge. A sale target of 300 e-bikes a year should generate about £300,000 sales.

 

[Alan Quay]

sometime ago, I did a feasibility study on buying and selling bikes in the £300-£500 band. The idea is some customers may want to have a kit like the GSM fitted. The income stream would come from regular markup on the mechanical bike plus kit sale and fitting charge. A sale target of 300 e-bikes a year should generate about £300,000 sales.

In a very limited way, I do something similar. If a local second hand bike takes my fancy, especially if its cheap because it needs something fixed, then I buy it with a view to selling it on.

It's just the selling on bit that I have yet to master. n+1 and all that...

 

[Kudoscycles]

Cathal....I bet after all the foregoing you probably think it is not worth the effort and that we are trying to put you off.
Far from it,I respect anybody who is trying to start a business today.
When I started my principal business I lived in a flat,had a wire hanging out the window and my stock in a lock up garage,it has grown to be a strong business now in a 40,000 sq foot warehouse.
But the world has changed in the 43 years I have been in business,the amount of legal knowledge and paperwork involved has grown ten fold....just an idea that when you do a show at the NEC there are now 37 forms to be completed.
I admire anyone who copes with a new business.
So keep it small,under the vat limit,keep it legal. Identify a type to suit your market.....Trex built a nice bike on his Giant bike which would appeal to an ex road-race type customer,on a secondhand bike I think you could sell at max £1000,perhaps £200 profit,maybe 3 or 4 per month.
I would do a deal with a UK motor supplier,if you have a battery or motor problem you have some local warranty,no realistic possibility with a Chinese supplier.
So many talk,few do....go for it....you won't know whether it will work and the upsides/downsides until you get involved.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Surely if you tell the customer it's not legal to ride on the road and provide this information to them you won't be liable for their offences. I'd say you'd only be open to litigation if you deliberately misled them.

You would think so but customers tend to have short memories when faced with litigation and it's very tempting to try to deflect the blame to the 'expert',if you watch them test ride it on the road that is effectively you saying its legal to use on the road.
KudosDave

 

[EddiePJ]

Here is one for you to either laugh at or not.

For those that are already in the trade, I recently spotted what I thought could be two new advertising mediums.

The first for pedelecs, the second for pedal only cycles.

I was sitting in the waiting room at my local orthopaedic hospital a month or so ago, and it occurred to me that many such places, are now open to public advertising and sponsorship.
What an ideal place to be promoting pedelec's for post operation rehabilitation and health improvement, whilst having low impact on joint issues.
Many hospitals now have TV monitor advertising, but wouldn't it be great to actually have wall space to hang a bike from. A captive audience, and one that should be looking towards health improvement. Health improvement that I'd imagine hospital staff to be in favour of. Whether by sale of product, hire of product, or even the sale of and fitment of kits to a clients existing pedal cycle, there must be an angle there somewhere.
I quite fancy the hire idea my self, but don't have the finance to back it.

The second place, which I mentioned to a 'non ebike' cycle shop owning friend, is private leisure centres and health clubs/gyms. Again as an advertising space, you couldn't get much better. A lovely race orientated road bike, or MTB adorning a wall placed in front of static cycles, could work very well. The friend that I mentioned the idea to, is now in negotiation with two local private gyms, so it'll be interesting to see how things pan out, even if it only gets the name of his shop known, it must help.

Sitting here thinking about it further, Railway stations could be another source of advertising. No idea how you could implement keeping a static display safe, but many people travel to and from railway stations by cycle.

 

[Kudoscycles]

If you are building to German standards there is no way you can build a new bespoke bike for under 1330 € and make a living. Sure you can put a GSM motor kit on a brand new Decathlon bike and sell it for £995 but it will still have crappy tyres and brakes far from German standards.

As soon as you try adding quality components you find yourself in the 2250 € price zone competing almost directly with the German bikes price wise. And you have a whole heap of low quality bike bits in a box that you could try and flog on e-bay (probably earning yourself a reputation as a bike thief in the process).

Another kiwi...most of the German assemblers (note I use assemblers not manufacturers) use Chinese sourced parts. I walk round my e-bike supplier in Tianjin,who is also the largest frame manufacturer and I read many of the German names on the frame references. Shimano,Tektro,King Meter,Shwalbe all used by German assemblers are Chinese manufactured.
There are many Italian and Spanish bike suppliers whose bikes are badge engineered and 100 % Chinese manufactured and assembled.
The major exception is Bosch motors,made in France and Eastern Europe.
Not sure where Yamaha is manufactured. But the new Bafang mid drive is receiving some good reviews.
The Germans are good at assembling and get the details and styling more integrated,their marketing also very strong and they have a very loyal home market ,good quality control but the better components from the Chinese are often the same as the Germans.
KudosDave

 

[Cathal]

Thanks for all the advice guys, it hasn't gone unnoticed

 

[Cathal]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/wing-ebikes?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

This guy seems to be doing OK.

 

[the_killjoy]

I notice that whilst he says it is great 'off-road' that nowhere does he mention that it is illegal to ride on the road.

 

[anotherkiwi]

£249 bike (price at halfords) + £502 motor kit (ciclotek* may charge him less, they have a reseller program) = less than £750 in costs

What he is doing wrong:
"Wing eBikes have developed a system that allows the user to swap between two modes depending on whether you are on-road or off-road, "

This is false advertising (and a downright lie) they have developed nothing. Wing eBikes have cobbled a Ciclotek* LCD5 kit onto a bike. They have nothing to do with the design or programming of the KT-LCD3 which is provided with the kit.

The speed can be limited to 25 kph but turning down the Amps from the LCD (very time consuming series of button presses) you will only limit the output to 17 amps which give 816 Watt far from 250 W nominative. This is not what I would call "two modes" just damned powerful and a whole heap more powerful...

So if being a successful con man is your idea of "doing OK" go for it...

* I recognised the kit and the controller bag as from Ciclotek but there are probably other importers selling this bog standard Chinese kit

 

[anotherkiwi]

It gets worse, he is selling the original rear wheel from the bike for £52... And the unmounted brake levers from the kit for £12

 

[craiggor]

For off road use only has never stopped the motorcycle manufacturers from selling bikes.

 

[flecc]

For off road use only has never stopped the motorcycle manufacturers from selling bikes.

But they are legal as machines, there are no laws restricting motorcycle power or maximum powered speed. The control of those is by registration and driving licences

Pedelecs are completely different, restricted in their power and maximum motor drive speed, since they are not registered and riders don't have to have a licence and are therefore untested and untraceable.
.