London in Flames!

[Cyclezee]

Like many, I was glued to the TV yesterday evening watching the live coverage of events as they unfolded on the streets of our capital.
I sat up when I saw the breaking news "bus on fire in Peckham" scroll across the bottom of screen. My daughter lives in Peckham, so I called her to find out if she was OK. She was quite calm and also watching the coverage, she was caught up with the 7/7 bombings when she worked at the Home Office and knows how to handle herself.

"Oh yeah, I saw the bus when I was on the train home to Peckham Rye" she said followed by "can you hear the helicopters on the phone", I said "hear them, no but I can see what they are showing, that building on fire is in Rye Lane, less than 200 yards from you"

Her phone went silent for a few seconds before she swore and the reality of the situation struck home. Her next remark, in extremely bad taste reassured me that she was OK. " Well dad, you will just have to eat my cooking next time you come to visit it instead of poping down to Greggs for a pasty!".

She is off to work today as normal and hoping we have seen the worst of this, time will tell?

Hopefully, today the Police will be better prepared and given the green light by our "Hug a Hoodie" leader to get stuck in as soon as any trouble starts and before it gets completly out of control again. No other country would tolerate this behaviour.
Obviously, I don't want to see innocent bystanders getting hurt, so at the first sign of trouble they need to get off the streets so that the Police can do ther job.

 

[JuicyBike]

Thank goodness she's safe John. I too have a daughter not far away from the violence.

Hugging a hoodie has never come naturally to me, but I can see how, when it appears that society has nothing to offer them (jobs, education, training, hope), firey youths can so easily demonstrate such lack of faith and trust. Proud people don't behave like this.

There's no excuse, of course, but have the policies been thought through?

 

[indalo]

It's ok; we'll all be safe now as the acting Met commissioner has ordered all the specials to report for duty. That'll really have the yobs quaking in their Nikes!

It's a very sad reflection of the time in which we live. What we have witnessed this last three nights is an abuse of the freedoms that the young people of previous generations fought and died to uphold on foreign soil.

Indalo

 

[carpetbagger]

It would help if we didn't pay them to sit on their lazy backsides so they can enjoy their drink and drugs..They get dole money so give them a brush and a binbag and get them cleaning up the streets. If they don't do it then they don't get anything. All this had nothing to do with the guy who was shot,just an excuse to get freebies from any premises they can break into.
To say society has let them down is absolute crap. Go and look at any third world country and they would realise how lucky they are. Moronic scum...thats the worst i could say on the forum.

 

[funkylyn]

A relief for you John that your daughter is safe thank goodness........but the news today just continues unabated.
It remains to be seen what actually did happen with the shooting that was the excuse for the yobs to get out in force and grab themselves some freebies along with a 'good' night of entertainment.
Yes, its sad that they dont seem to have much of a future, but your future is what you make of it, there are plenty instances of people from deprived backgrounds working hard to improve them selves...like we all have to......
Whilst we support a system that encourages a cradle to grave dependancy on the state this country is doomed to more of the same.
Having lots of spanish friends they are always amazed at the 'welfare' system in the UK and ask 'how can the UK afford it''.....what a joke.....we cant..... and the benefit system of this country is at the root of these troubled times......how can we move forward with such a large majority of youngsters believing that they are ENTITLED to benefit for the rest of their lives.......after all, many of them are third generation now.
If you are unemployed in spain for example you get full benefit in line with your previous wages for a length of time depending on the number of years worked.....if you havent worked you get nothing...your family are expected to look after you.....as they are if you are 16 and pregnant.....no free flats in spain.
When your unemployment benefit runs out thats more or less it.....you are expected to have found some sort of work...even if its only lemon picking.....there are very small subsistent levels for the very poor.

Sorry, I wont go ranting on, I could, but I wont, LOL..........wish I could run the country for a while though .......or anyone with some common sense and the b******s to do what has to be done

Lynda

 

[bode]

My daughter had a similar experience to yours, John. She lives not far from Hackney, and set off to the neighbourhood shops after returning from work, to buy something for dinner. However, when she found things, as she put it, "starting to kick off" in the main road, she sensibly returned home and stayed there for the evening with the curtains closed listening to people running up and down her street shouting.

Because she had only moved back to her flat at the weekend after a year in Edinburgh, she dined on a can of tuna, a can of kidney beans, and a bottle of Heineken!

She went to work today, and "so far so good".

 

[JuicyBike]

Yes.... but we've had such people in our society for the last 15 years... what's changed recently?

 

[funkylyn]

Yes.... but we've had such people in our society for the last 15 years... what's changed recently?

They've bred.......
Lynda

 

[funkylyn]

Well.....having just watched all those people on the streets helping to clean up, it certainly starts to restore your faith in human nature....thank goodness.
Lets hope the world coverage of these riots show that on tv as well as the rioting.......

Lynda

 

[flecc]

I'm in Croydon, but for us it was a repeat since we had a riot a year back that didn't hit the national news in the same way since it was an isolated one. It was similar though with police attacked in running battles, shops looted and wrecked and an estimated 5 millions in damage to the High Street.

With New Addington alongside me also under attack, it was sealed off so our tramlink buses could only do the one and a half mile loop to the village and back all day. The outcome was that we had five buses running round the mile and a half all day, but with no passengers since no-one wanted to go into the Croydon centre of course.

 

[shep]

Riots are terrible and Cameron said today

I have this very clear message for those people who are responsible: you will feel the full force of the law and if you are old enough to commit these crimes you are old enough to face the punishment.

So what about the Bankers then Dave? they have created far more mayhem that will last for many years and far more damage than these rioters and nothing at all has happened to them NOTHING.

I have always voted Conservative but the way that in this country there seems to be one rule for a few people and another rule for all the rest of us, is now a bit bloody obvious. Are these Politicians our representatives? or the paid PR/ Salesforce of the bankers?

Burning shops and small business is despicable WRONG TARGET, However if they had attacked the City Of London or Canary Wharf they would have been doing us all a favour, and i for one would probably have joined them.

 

[flecc]

Absolutely true Shep, and despite the protests by politicians that this was just mindless rioting, behind it all is a very deep dissatisfaction about the way this country is run and the obscenity of the distribution of wealth.

I think with the real cuts yet to come, this could be the beginning of something longer lasting and far worse. The idea that this riotous direct action can be just suppressed out of existence by harsh legal action may prove to be a huge miscalculation. Politicians who insult the many ordinary people with clean backgrounds who took part by branding them all with the same brush applied to the opportunists are just making things worse.

The fact is that the politicians only have enemies now, those who riot against their decisions and those who are unhappy with how they are dealing with the situations that arise from the civil disorder. That is a dangerous situation which can only be alleviated by dealing with the "fat cats" like the bankers and other very senior executives who they've favoured so greatly.

Cuts, high taxation, deprivation and poverty do not in themselves cause riots, as a society we've suffered far worse conditions in the past. It's the appalling unfairness of our society that is causing these problems, and that's why it's in the cities where the juxtaposition of the haves and the have-nots is so apparent that the trouble always begins.

 

[funkylyn]

However if they had attacked the City Of London or Canary Wharf they would have been doing us all a favour, and i for one would probably have joined them.

WHAT ?.......how on earth is attacking even more property be doing us all a favour ?
I am absolutely NO fan of the bankers who have been allowed to line their own pockets at all our expenses, but going down to the level of these thugs rioting on the streets is NEVER the answer.
Decent people are NOT on the streets rioting and the people who ARE need to be stopped, we need to untie the hands of the police, bring in water cannons ...stop this before it gets any more out of hand, we need to STOP making excuses for these people, we need to stop being frightened of the worst interpretations of the ridiculous human rights legislation, we need to get back to basics bring back discipline not only in the home but in the schools, we need to stop breeding youngsters who are frightened of no one because NO ONE has ever said NO to them we need to stop supporting people who are more than capable of working to keep themselves, reduce the levels of payment so that it DOES NOT pay them to not work and we need to keep benefits for the genuine people it was first brought in for.....those who actually DO need them and please dont anyone say that there are no jobs because the immigrants who came over here to actually WORK dont seem to have any bother finding work.
As for the 'unfair' distribution of wealth.....well, thats life I'm afraid , you are not going to ever be able to do anything about that......its been like that for hundreds and hundreds of years, I'm not jealous of people who have more money than me, nor do I riot to steal what I want, I just buckle down and work harder to get it myself, nor do I think they are any better or worse than me......this is where I have been born in life and we all have to make the best of what we have been born with

What we really need is to find politicians who are not frightened to do what they all know is right to bring this country back to what it used to be, if not, then things certainly WILL get worse and the nightmare scenario of mayhem in our country might not be the science fiction future that we all hope it stays in...... and will become reality and THEN heaven help our kids.

Lynda

 

[indalo]

Great Britain, the country whose people have welcomed immigrants for hundreds of years, is now learning that immigration is the cause of our current problems. The following was reported by the BBC this morning:

1026: BBC Monitoring

Rioting in Britain is the fault of the government and police, Iranian newspaper Resalat reports. In an editorial on "Cameron's iron fist", the paper says the unrest is the consequence of the UK government's "human rights violations". In a rare moment of harmony, press in both Israel and Iran cite immigration as one of the reasons for unrest in the UK. Editorials in Iran's Khorasan newspaper and Israel's Yisrael Hayom both speculate that tensions in multicultural communities may be the cause. "All those who felt disadvantaged and full of hatred are now running wild," the Israeli paper says.

Mmm....now there's a dilemma; who should we get rid of first - the Yids or the Iranians?

Indalo

 

[flecc]

Decent people are NOT on the streets rioting

I suppose it's how you classify decent Lynda, but the police have noted with some surprise that many of those arrested are people of formerly good character. This indicates the issue is not as simple as you suggest and if you are wrong, the methods you advocate will make things much worse.

 

[funkylyn]

I suppose it's how you classify decent Lynda, but the police have noted with some surprise that many of those arrested are people of formerly good character. This indicates the issue is not as simple as you suggest and if you are wrong, the methods you advocate will make things much worse.

No, I'm sorry Flecc......decent is decent, its not a case of classifying it, and decent people do not RIOT on the streets......they can protest, but thats a different thing altogether.
I dont think I have suggested that the issue is simple and I certainly dont agree that the common sense methods I advocate are wrong and would make things worse....it cant actually GET much worse before we get totally out of control, at the moment the decent people in this country are in the majority......but if we continue as we are doing that will not stay that way forever, someone has to have the b***s to sort this mess out properly now instead of pussy footing around it which is all our politicians seem capable of doing......we may yet need another woman of steel in control........

Lynda

 

[flecc]

......we may yet need another woman of steel in control........

Lynda

Now that would really be a disaster, as it was last time. Many of todays troubles are traceable directly back to the outcomes of Thatcher's policies. Would you classify all of the miners as not being decent people?

Of course they were mostly decent, just ordinary normally law-abiding people pushed too far.

 

[indalo]

someone has to have the b***s to sort this mess out properly now instead of pussy footing around it which is all our politicians seem capable of doing......we may yet need another woman of steel in control........

Lynda

God forbid! The last one did irreparable damage along with her tory acolytes. Neither the Germans nor any number of hooligan gangs come anywhere close in terms of the harm to the British people caused during 1979 - 1997.

Indalo

 

[funkylyn]

Well, it wasnt a disaster as far as I am concerned and coming from a mining town I can see both sides of the story....
It would be a poor place if we all agreed with each other

But PLEASE......do not EVER even try to say that Margaret Thatcher or indeed ANY Tory , did more harm to the British people than the nazi's did during the war....that is clearly not only wrong and ridiculous but a slur on brave men, like my father, who fought for the freedom of this country, which is how we are all able to have discussions like this on a public forum without fear of reprisals.......

Lynda

 

[indalo]

Many of todays troubles are traceable directly back to the outcomes of Thatcher's policies. Would you classify all of the miners as not being decent people?

Of course they were mostly decent, just ordinary normally law-abiding people pushed too far.

Absolutely spot-on Flecc and we could go back even further into the reasons why post-war Britain lost its huge engineering industry, its car-making and coalmining capacity. We know from history that only the British government in the form of successive tory administrations made those disastrous decisions while the rest of europe, faced with the same challenges, supported their major industries.

The tories would love to cut all benefits to the core and return to the days when men had to queue up for work, only being picked if the gangers liked them. Mass unemployment is still a major tool in the tory armoury but when all hope, dignity and self-respect is removed from large swathes of the population, inevitably there will be a backlash.

Some things never change however and the bankers will continue to rob the poor while continuing to run the tory party and the country. Revolution will come but not in my lifetime.

Now, we seem to be missing an aircraft carrier or two.......not to worry though; I expect the French will help out should we need to defend the Falklands again. I really ought to avoid this kind of discussion!

Indalo