lessons learnt and now even more advice required

[LesG]

Hi, you may remember me asking a load of basic questions and asking advice after buying a very cheap Chinese bike. I thank you for your patience and replies, but have more questions.
I was totally new and bought what I thought was a very good priced bike.
I have since had a ride on my brother in laws Tern Vectron bike, wow, what a difference, you really do get what you pay for.
His bike is well out of my price range nearly 4k, but I really want to upgrade on what I have now.
I am willing to pay 1.5k or if absolutely required, 2k top
I am not bothered about riding off road, just enjoy riding for pleasure
I am a healthy 61 and 6ft tall 12.5 stone
I live in a hilly area so really need 50-60 Nm
Ideally mid hub as I was really impressed with the more expensive bike
I would like 60 miles assisted range and a 400Wh battery.
I am unsure what cadence sensor and torque power bring to the party though.
Any advice on what is a good make and model supplier in my price range of bike would be really helpful, I didn't know I was buying a Chinese bike before.
Thanks in advance
Les

 

[soundwave]

Haibike Trekking 4 2022 Mid Electric Bike – e-bikeshop.co.uk

Haibike Trekking 4 2022 Mid Yamaha Electric Bike. Available today from the UK's premier Haibike eBike dealer.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

Haibike Trekking 3 2025 Crossbar eBike – e-bikeshop.co.uk

The Haibike Trekking 3 Crossbar 2025 electric bike is the mid spec model in the Trekking range, with a Bosch Performance eBike motor and 500Wh battery.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

Haibike AllTrack 4 (29) 2024 Electric Bike – e-bikeshop.co.uk

The all new Haibike AllTrack 4 (29) 2024 electric bike is powered by the Bosch Performance eBike motor, perfect for trail and mountain bike riders alike.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

id wait if you can as prices will start going down fast soon

 

[AndyBike]

Is a suss fork really needed ?
More often than not its just a poorly functioning hunk of metal on the front that does little better than add to the weight. Fork of choice for many brands is a suntour, which can weigh nearly 6lbs on the coil version.

 

[Az.]

Why not find a bike you like and then convert it?

£4K for folder is a lot...

Edit: Eventually ready made:

Gran Camino MTB electric bicycle from Woosh

The Woosh Gran Camino, a 27.5 electric mountain bike with hydraulic brakes 36V 15AH/17AH battery from Woosh. Price range: £1379-£1459. Great bike for trails.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[LesG]

id wait if you can as prices will start going down fast soon
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I'm certainly not going to rush into buying another bike, but those bikes look interesting although not all of them are available in my size

 

[LesG]

Why not find a bike you like and then convert it?

I am not sure what I really want as I am a total newcomer to what makes a bike good or bad so that coupled with the stress of finding a conversion kit THEN having to find someone to convert just seems too much hassle, that's why I am tapping into all the knowledge on this forum

£4K for folder is a lot...

Yes it is and he tells me that he paid 3.2k five years ago and now is worth 4k such is their resell value

Edit: Eventually ready made:

Gran Camino MTB electric bicycle from Woosh

The Woosh Gran Camino, a 27.5 electric mountain bike with hydraulic brakes 36V 15AH/17AH battery from Woosh. Price range: £1379-£1459. Great bike for trails.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[Az.]

he tells me that he paid 3.2k five years ago and now is worth 4k such is their resell value

I find ready made bikes heavily overpriced for what they really are to the point it is just a rip off. Com on... this Tern Vectron looks nice, but £3.2K? Really? You can buy a new electric scooter or used car for that money.
On top of that manufactures proudly show motors while other components are of poor quality.

But if you can afford to pay extra for nice ready made bike then it is OK too. After all what counts is pleasure of cycling.

 

[LesG]

I find ready made bikes heavily overpriced for what they really are to the point it is just a rip off.

Possibly, but I presume you would/can do the conversion yourself, I do not possess such skill so that would probably put well over 100 pounds onto the project

Com on... this Tern Vectron looks nice, but £3.2K? Really? You can buy a new electric scooter or used car for that money.

I agree, that is why my very top limit is 2k and I don't really want a folding bike anyway

 

[Az.]

Possibly, but I presume you would/can do the conversion yourself, I do not possess such skill so that would probably put well over 100 pounds onto the project

I like DIY, which means whatever I do I practically start with zero knowledge. A bit of research and determination is all what you need really. Even if you budget £100 for conversion, you still will end up with much better bike.

For example bikes recommended by SW are very decent, but Shimano Altus on 2.5kRRP bike? Really? You usually find it on bikes around £300. It is OK, but low end if you know what I mean.

What I am trying to say for £900 you can have WOW bike. £600 for kit and maybe £100 for installation. Much better value.

But if you buy ready made bike for £2000 you should be happy too.

PS Front hub installation is not much harder than changing inner tube.

 

[Woosh]

one frequent question with conversions is 'do I need to drill extra holes?'
With some kits (like kits with a rack battery or a bag battery and a cadence sensor) , there is absolutely no need but with some other kits, you'll need to drill at least one hole. Such as to install a bottom bracket torque sensor. This is why I resist the temptation to to use them.

Bottom bracket torque sensor: a hole is needed to let the cable through.

 

[saneagle]

PS Front hub installation is not much harder than changing inner tube.

As long as your bike has steel forks, a 10mm bolt on axle, rim brakes and forks with inboard drop-outs and no lawyers lips.

It's not so easy when you have to file your drop-outs wider to get the motor in, then file them deeper to get the axle in far enough and re-centralise the brake, then you find that the motor is rubbing on the fork leg because you have the wrong shape forks, then you find that the disc no longer lines up with the centre of the caliper and rubs on it. Finally, after sorting out all that, you take it for a ride and take a dive over the handlebars, landing on your face when the drop-outs broke because you didn't fit a torque arm.

 

[Az.]

As long as your bike has steel forks, a 10mm bolt on axle, rim brakes and forks with inboard drop-outs and no lawyers lips(...)

This is exactly what we have you for.
One can find a nice bike. One can take detailed pictures and post them here. Then get "Seneagle approved" stamp and permission to proceed with conversion.

you take it for a ride and take a dive over the handlebars, landing on your face when the drop-outs broke because you didn't fit a torque arm.

I didn't fit torque arm on my aluminum fork. You have just added one more anxiety to long list of my mental problems.
Thanks a lot



...

 

[saneagle]

I didn't fit torque arm on my aluminum fork. You have just added one more anxiety to long list of my mental problems.
Thanks a lot

They don't cost much, and you're safe when you fit one. No need for anxiety. The problem is that it's metal fatigue that causes the break, and you never know when it's going to happen.

 

[Bikes4two]

I would like 60 miles assisted range and a 400Wh battery.

Lots of things to think about - here's another one:

• To get 60 miles out of a 400Wh battery you'd need to draw 6.67Wh/mile or less from it.
• I have a TSDZ2 mid drive (36v 250w) and I typically burn 6-7Wh/mile as I nearly always only use the lowest power setting (ECO)
• Thus if you do only get a 400Wh battery then you'll need to put in a fair bit of your own effort to achieve that sort of range and given that you say you live in a hilly area, you'll be keeping fit for sure.
• I have achieved around 4.5Wh/mile by switching to zero assist on level or slightly downhill roads, which could be an option for you if you really do want to go no more than a 400Wh battery.

 

[LesG]

Lots of things to think about - here's another one:

• To get 60 miles out of a 400Wh battery you'd need to draw 6.67Wh/mile or less from it.
• I have a TSDZ2 mid drive (36v 250w) and I typically burn 6-7Wh/mile as I nearly always only use the lowest power setting (ECO)
• Thus if you do only get a 400Wh battery then you'll need to put in a fair bit of your own effort to achieve that sort of range and given that you say you live in a hilly area, you'll be keeping fit for sure.
• I have achieved around 4.5Wh/mile by switching to zero assist on level or slightly downhill roads, which could be an option for you if you really do want to go no more than a 400Wh battery.

Sorry for the late reply, I have only just seen it.
I am more than prepared to put effort in, I certainly don't want the motor to do all the work, just take some of the strain when I am going up hill.
This may be a basic question, but how do you measure the Wh/mile that you quote ?

There have been quite a lot of replies regarding Suntour forks, what is wrong with them ? or maybe what makes other makes better ?

 

[LesG]

Back to my original post and my wish list of -

I am willing to pay 1.5k or if absolutely required, 2k top
I am not bothered about riding off road, just enjoy riding for pleasure
I am a healthy 61 and 6ft tall 12.5 stone
I live in a hilly area so really need 50-60 Nm
Ideally mid hub as I was really impressed with the more expensive bike
I would like 60 miles assisted range and a 400Wh battery.

I have been scouring the www and found this in a local bike shop, what are your opinions ?

Raleigh Motus Crossbar Derailleur 2023 Electric Bike

<p>Cycling can be a great workout – but it doesn’t have to be. Say goodbye to jelly legs and hello to an effortless ride with the Motus – the electric hybrid bike for everyday life. With a powerful Bosch battery and motor, the Motus makes easy wor

winstanleysbikes.co.uk

Thanks
Les

 

[sjpt]

We've been very happy with our Motus ... rather a different beast as 2016 low step model with hub gears.
That one looks very good value; it is a the least powerful Bosch motor though.

You'll probably just get 60 miles assisted range if you use lowest assistance.
See https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant if you haven't already.

Are Winstanley local to you? A friend just bought from there (Gazelle Orange C8, very nice bike and exactly what she needed). The '1 IN STOCK - DESPATCHED IN 1 WORKING DAY' was not the case, it wasn't despatched for over a week. Not too serious and well worth the wait. It was a bit worrying as she missed their emails explaining because gmail hid them in her 'promotions' inbox.

 

[Bikes4two]

This may be a basic question, but how do you measure the Wh/mile that you quote ?

The device you need is often described as a coulomb meter - there are many different options - do a google images search and on Ali Express to see the different versions.

Some people find a suitable type and mount them on their bike whilst I have one on a home made test board and every time I recharge my battery I note the miles I've done since the last recharge and the Watt Hours to do the recharge. All results end up on a spreadsheet and so it is very easy to determine the Wh/mile figure.

(On the same test board I have a resistive dummy load and I periodically do a full charge/discharge on the battery packs (to LVC=31.5v, not absolutely flat!) through the coulomb meter so I can keep an eye on battery performance over time.).

 

[LesG]

The device you need is often described as a coulomb meter - there are many different options - do a google images search and on Ali Express to see the different versions.

Some people find a suitable type and mount them on their bike whilst I have one on a home made test board and every time I recharge my battery I note the miles I've done since the last recharge and the Watt Hours to do the recharge. All results end up on a spreadsheet and so it is very easy to determine the Wh/mile figure.

(On the same test board I have a resistive dummy load and I periodically do a full charge/discharge on the battery packs (to LVC=31.5v, not absolutely flat!) through the coulomb meter so I can keep an eye on battery performance over time.).

View attachment 52846

I know this sounds silly with me buying another ebike and I should know more about electrics, but I struggle with electronic terminology, it's only recently that I have found out that the more amps the better, I thought it was all about watts and volts, so buying, attempting to set up and trying understand the readings on one of these would just confuse me and frustrate me.
Les

 

[LesG]

We've been very happy with our Motus ... rather a different beast as 2016 low step model with hub gears.
That one looks very good value; it is a the least powerful Bosch motor though.

You'll probably just get 60 miles assisted range if you use lowest assistance.
See https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant if you haven't already.

That's fine I probably don't need the full 60 miles assisted anyway, yes, I had seen the range assistant, thanks anyway.

Are Winstanley local to you?

Yes they are only 5 miles from my house, in fact I cycled there yesterday and looked around, but the store assistant was busy for the full 20 minutes with one other customer and to be fair didn't even acknowledge me, so I shall call back again next week.

A friend just bought from there (Gazelle Orange C8, very nice bike and exactly what she needed). The '1 IN STOCK - DESPATCHED IN 1 WORKING DAY' was not the case, it wasn't despatched for over a week. Not too serious and well worth the wait. It was a bit worrying as she missed their emails explaining because gmail hid them in her 'promotions' inbox.

Regarding your dispatched in 1 working day quote, there have been loads of complaints about their customer service and not answering the phone etc on their Facebook page.
If I do decide on the Raleigh I will be collecting from the store anyway and any issues with the bike should be sorted relatively easier .......I hope lol
Les