lessons learnt and now even more advice required

[Bikes4two]

I know this sounds silly with me buying another ebike and I should know more about electrics, but I struggle with electronic terminology, it's only recently that I have found out that the more amps the better, I thought it was all about watts and volts, so buying, attempting to set up and trying understand the readings on one of these would just confuse me and frustrate me.
Les

Ah right - try this tiny bit of info to see if it helps:

• The relationship between amps and volts is defined by Ohms Law - you don't need to understand this law but if you do, you'll find it useful in understanding these things more clearly
• when you buy a battery it comes at a nominal voltage and it's capacity (loosely akin to what size a car's petrol tank is) is most commonly described in amp-hours (Ah).
• sometimes a battery's capacity is also described in watt-hours. (Wh).
• Watt-hours are simply determined by multiplying the nominal voltage (V) by its capacity in amp-hours (Ah) i.e. Wh = V x Ah
• E.g a 36v battery at 10Ah has a capacity of 36 x 10 = 360Wh

it's only recently that I have found out that the more amps the better

• No, the range is down to the capacity of the battery described in amp-hours (or watt-hours).
• When considering purchasing a battery, bear in mind that the more Ah (or Wh) it is, the greater the cost and the greater the weight you'll be lugging around
• So if you buy a large battery that might give you a hundred mile range but you ever only go to the shops/pub/friend's house 10 miles away, then that's a considerable waste of money and your energy.

Feel free to ask any questions on this subject - it's what this forum is for and everyone has to start somehwhere in understanding the in's and out's of ebikes .

 

[Terol Jiang]

yes, i consider that DIY a bike to electric bike much cheaper, electric motor & battery total costs need about £600. if enjoy riding, TSDZ2B torque sensor mid motor kits is the best choice, if just instead of walk, wheel motor conversion kits is ok, as the costs of this type is the lowest (must have in store in your country, the shipping costs is very high).
PS: TSDZ2B mid motor is special for MTB and off road bike.

 

[LesG]

Ah right - try this tiny bit of info to see if it helps:

• The relationship between amps and volts is defined by Ohms Law - you don't need to understand this law but if you do, you'll find it useful in understanding these things more clearly
• when you buy a battery it comes at a nominal voltage and it's capacity (loosely akin to what size a car's petrol tank is) is most commonly described in amp-hours (Ah).
• sometimes a battery's capacity is also described in watt-hours. (Wh).
• Watt-hours are simply determined by multiplying the nominal voltage (V) by its capacity in amp-hours (Ah) i.e. Wh = V x Ah
• E.g a 36v battery at 10Ah has a capacity of 36 x 10 = 360Wh

• No, the range is down to the capacity of the battery described in amp-hours (or watt-hours).
• When considering purchasing a battery, bear in mind that the more Ah (or Wh) it is, the greater the cost and the greater the weight you'll be lugging around
• So if you buy a large battery that might give you a hundred mile range but you ever only go to the shops/pub/friend's house 10 miles away, then that's a considerable waste of money and your energy.

Feel free to ask any questions on this subject - it's what this forum is for and everyone has to start somehwhere in understanding the in's and out's of ebikes .

Interesting, thank you, so in reality for me to get 500Wh I need a battery with 36v and 14 Ah?
In reality I would do probably 40 miles max, but as I live on top of a hill I don't want the range to be poor on my way back home and have to pedal hard, this is the main reason for getting an ebike

 

[LesG]

yes, i consider that DIY a bike to electric bike much cheaper, electric motor & battery total costs need about £600. if enjoy riding, TSDZ2B torque sensor mid motor kits is the best choice, if just instead of walk, wheel motor conversion kits is ok, as the costs of this type is the lowest (must have in store in your country, the shipping costs is very high).
PS: TSDZ2B mid motor is special for MTB and off road bike.

I don't think a MTB is the way I want to go, but thank you

 

[saneagle]

Interesting, thank you, so in reality for me to get 500Wh I need a battery with 36v and 14 Ah?
In reality I would do probably 40 miles max, but as I live on top of a hill I don't want the range to be poor on my way back home and have to pedal hard, this is the main reason for getting an ebike

Unless you're less than 80kg, 48v will always be better, especially for hills.

 

[LesG]

Haibike Trekking 4 2022 Mid Electric Bike – e-bikeshop.co.uk

Haibike Trekking 4 2022 Mid Yamaha Electric Bike. Available today from the UK's premier Haibike eBike dealer.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

Haibike Trekking 3 2025 Crossbar eBike – e-bikeshop.co.uk

The Haibike Trekking 3 Crossbar 2025 electric bike is the mid spec model in the Trekking range, with a Bosch Performance eBike motor and 500Wh battery.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

Haibike AllTrack 4 (29) 2024 Electric Bike – e-bikeshop.co.uk

The all new Haibike AllTrack 4 (29) 2024 electric bike is powered by the Bosch Performance eBike motor, perfect for trail and mountain bike riders alike.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

id wait if you can as prices will start going down fast soon

I am really interested in the middle one
Haibike Trekking 3 2023 Crossbar

and will continue to monitor the price which I presume will drop ( if at all ) around October time

 

[LesG]

Unless you're less than 80kg, 48v will always be better, especially for hills.

actually I am 12 and a half stone just under 80kgs
Most of the ebikes I have looked at seem to be 36v especially around my price range

 

[soundwave]

The Electric Bike Shop | Quality Electric Bikes From The Electric Bike Specialists

Quality electric bikes from Aitour, Benno, Cube, Eovolt, FOCUS, GoCycle, Haibike, Lapierre, Niner, Raleigh and Tern.

www.theelectricbikeshop.co.uk

some bikes have 30% off all ready

 

[Terol Jiang]

Unless you're less than 80kg, 48v will always be better, especially for hills.

yes, agreed. 48v is forceful than 36v, especially for climb if the force do not enough, bike move like a turtle

 

[LesG]

The Electric Bike Shop | Quality Electric Bikes From The Electric Bike Specialists

Quality electric bikes from Aitour, Benno, Cube, Eovolt, FOCUS, GoCycle, Haibike, Lapierre, Niner, Raleigh and Tern.

www.theelectricbikeshop.co.uk

some bikes have 30% off all ready

Yes, it shows on your original reply that these Haibikes were in a sale, but you also said to wait as prices are likely to come down, so I was just presuming October time

 

[LesG]

Unless you're less than 80kg, 48v will always be better, especially for hills.

Now I am getting really confused, after getting loads of welcome advice on here, I seem to be going backwards with my knowledge of ebikes
I thought power was all in the Wh's so 500Wh is a good amount
This particular Haibike I am looking at is 500Wh and has 75Nm to help get me up these hills, now I am being advised to get a heavier 48v battery if over 80kg

 

[Woosh]

WH is a unit of energy, 500Wh gives you about 50-80 miles.
NM is a unit of torque, 75NM is above average, you can climb steep hills up to about 20% at your weight.
You only get 48V batteries from small producers and kits. Mainstream producers use only 36V.
48V is better for heavy riders but not a deal breaker.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Back to my original post and my wish list of -

I am willing to pay 1.5k or if absolutely required, 2k top
I am not bothered about riding off road, just enjoy riding for pleasure
I am a healthy 61 and 6ft tall 12.5 stone
I live in a hilly area so really need 50-60 Nm
Ideally mid hub as I was really impressed with the more expensive bike
I would like 60 miles assisted range and a 400Wh battery.

I have been scouring the www and found this in a local bike shop, what are your opinions ?

Raleigh Motus Crossbar Derailleur 2023 Electric Bike

<p>Cycling can be a great workout – but it doesn’t have to be. Say goodbye to jelly legs and hello to an effortless ride with the Motus – the electric hybrid bike for everyday life. With a powerful Bosch battery and motor, the Motus makes easy wor

winstanleysbikes.co.uk

Thanks
Les

That looks like a terrible hill climbing ebike. The motor is only 40Nm and the ratio of 34 at the back and 38 at the front means 40x(34/38) plus a bit of loss through the chain means you are at about 34Nm and then you have large 700c wheels with 700x42 tyres so very large diameter wheels so effective torque is much reduced. This is actually quite a weak ebike. I'd say the majority of hub motor ebikes are more powerful.

Where mid-drive excels is with high output models 80Nm or more with low gearing as is typical of many e-mountain bikes. If you really want to maximise your torque go for 20" wheels too although that makes mountain bike gearing more difficult.

If I was configuring a ebike purely for hill climbing I'd probably go for one of Halford's Carrera Subway's and fit a Tongsheng mid-drive motor plus replace the stock cassette with one of those wide range 11-52T 8 speed cassettes or as close as you can get.

The issue with a pre-built ebike with a mid-drive motor designed for off-road is it will have suspension which is un-necessary for the road. It just makes more sense to configure your own ebike as I don't think there is a reasonably priced pre-built solution. I guess you could get a pre-built hard tail and change the suspension forks to rigid forks but it might look a bit weird.

You don't want a low power Bosch mid-drive motor, all the extra complexity, high repair costs, shorter lifespan for no actual benefit in power. Surely one of the worst ebike options out there.

 

[Bikes4two]

Now I am getting really confused, after getting loads of welcome advice on here, I seem to be going backwards with my knowledge of ebikes
I thought power was all in the Wh's so 500Wh is a good amount

• Oh my goodness, you are getting confused! I hoped my post #21 would have helped but aparently not?
• So take this car analogy: The Wh (Watt Hours) figure is for the energy in the battery as @Woosh said - this is like the amount of petrol/size of petrol tank in a car
• A car's petrol tank has nothing to do with the engine size/power.
• The Nm (newton metres) and motor voltage are all to do with what you can get out of the motor and you've already got advice on that aspect earlier in this thread.
• Rounding up the various advice from other posts in this thread, the bottom line for your situation comes to something like this - go for a 48v system with a battery of around 500Wh or more and a motor delivering near to 80Nm as possible.
• If you can get 500Wh and near to 80Nm in a 36v system, then settle for that.

 

[LesG]

• Oh my goodness, you are getting confused! I hoped my post #21 would have helped but aparently not?
• So take this car analogy: The Wh (Watt Hours) figure is for the energy in the battery as @Woosh said - this is like the amount of petrol/size of petrol tank in a car
• A car's petrol tank has nothing to do with the engine size/power.
• The Nm (newton metres) and motor voltage are all to do with what you can get out of the motor and you've already got advice on that aspect earlier in this thread.
• Rounding up the various advice from other posts in this thread, the bottom line for your situation comes to something like this - go for a 48v system with a battery of around 500Wh or more and a motor delivering near to 80Nm as possible.
• If you can get 500Wh and near to 80Nm in a 36v system, then settle for that.

• Watt-hours are simply determined by multiplying the nominal voltage (V) by its capacity in amp-hours (Ah) i.e. Wh = V x Ah
• E.g a 36v battery at 10Ah has a capacity of 36 x 10 = 360Wh

I think the main reason for my confusion is after your advice on post 21 I suggested a 36v battery with a 14Ah would give me 500Wh then being told by others that a (harder to get in a pre assembled ebike) heavier 48v battery is the way to go which I presume would be a 48v x 10.4Ah would give the same 500Wh output.

• If you can get 500Wh and near to 80Nm in a 36v system, then settle for that.

This appears to fit my criteria

Haibike 2024 Trekking 3 High 500Wh Electric Bike In Gloss Chalk & Black

Haibike 2024 Trekking 3 High 500Wh Electric Bike In Gloss Chalk & Black Gloss Chalk & Black £1999.00

www.theelectricbikeshop.co.uk

 

[LesG]

That looks like a terrible hill climbing ebike. The motor is only 40Nm and the ratio of 34 at the back and 38 at the front means 40x(34/38) plus a bit of loss through the chain means you are at about 34Nm and then you have large 700c wheels with 700x42 tyres so very large diameter wheels so effective torque is much reduced. This is actually quite a weak ebike. I'd say the majority of hub motor ebikes are more powerful.

Where mid-drive excels is with high output models 80Nm or more with low gearing as is typical of many e-mountain bikes. If you really want to maximise your torque go for 20" wheels too although that makes mountain bike gearing more difficult.

If I was configuring a ebike purely for hill climbing I'd probably go for one of Halford's Carrera Subway's and fit a Tongsheng mid-drive motor plus replace the stock cassette with one of those wide range 11-52T 8 speed cassettes or as close as you can get.

The issue with a pre-built ebike with a mid-drive motor designed for off-road is it will have suspension which is un-necessary for the road. It just makes more sense to configure your own ebike as I don't think there is a reasonably priced pre-built solution. I guess you could get a pre-built hard tail and change the suspension forks to rigid forks but it might look a bit weird.

You don't want a low power Bosch mid-drive motor, all the extra complexity, high repair costs, shorter lifespan for no actual benefit in power. Surely one of the worst ebike options out there.

Thank you, I have gone off this Raleigh since I saw the specifications on this Haibike

Haibike 2024 Trekking 3 High 500Wh Electric Bike In Gloss Chalk & Black

Haibike 2024 Trekking 3 High 500Wh Electric Bike In Gloss Chalk & Black Gloss Chalk & Black £1999.00

www.theelectricbikeshop.co.uk