Leaving the EU

[flecc]

Is this going to happen while they keep admitting the Eastern block countries and possibly Turkey who in general have much lower living standards than the main Eu countries

Yes, as I remarked earlier, many from the Eastern bloc have been returning home after being unemployed here and seeing things back home improving. There are weekly coaches for that purpose heading out from Victoria coach station.

And forget Turkey, they won't be joining for a long time if ever, for multiple reasons. Most importantly they are far from as keen as they were ten years ago. That's because they've used their low wage economy to create a successful manufacturing industry and are doing far better now. The Beko company that appeared out of nowhere and now challenges the giants in it's field is a good example of their current success.

And there's the religious and political aspect too. Turkey has moved more towards Islam than founder Mustapha Kamal Atatürk intended or desired and those in power now like President Erdoğan are not keen on integration with Europe for faith reasons.
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[flecc]

An excellent summary Old Groaner, I could have put it no better.
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This post above of mine got a "Disagree" from Mike Killay and Gray198.

I presume that means they think I could have put it better.
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[trex]

A friend of mine has moved to France. He is totally self sufficient, living off saving and a military pension.

The health system there has billed him for over 6000 Euro's worth of medical care and procedures.

The EU is taking us for mugs.

if he's permanent resident, then he should have got his S1 form.
they only bill him 20% of the cost. The other 80% (24,000 Euros) is picked up by the French CMU.

 

[tillson]

I've just seen Cameron on the news warning of a DIY recession if we vote to leave the EU.

Wind back 12 months and he was saying that he would back leaving the EU if he did not achieve meaningful reforms. I think it is pretty much universally agreed that when he asked for those reforms, the EU farted directly into his face and then pushed his head down the lavatory and pulled the chain. That aside, he is claiming that he did achieve reform, so is he saying that he would have actually voted for recession if he hadn't achieved his "reforms"? Or is he lying again?

And if he is lying, which on the evidence looks to be likely, why the need for the lies? Just sell it to us on the merits. Perhaps there sits the problem, the merits are very few.

 

[oldgroaner]

let me put to you the case to vote to exit.
I don't have problem with sovereignty though, just ecomonics.
this country is good at creating jobs, that is because our economy is more flexible and better resourced than all other member states. The result of this is certainly not felt by most people. I see every day struggling people that I have known for years struggling ever more because they get older and less competitive in the job market. If you are over 50, your chance of finding a similar job is nowadays practically nil. Of course, out of the EU, they will continue to struggle but the competition for jobs will be less.
I have a son and a daughter. Both are educated to the same level, both live in London. The older managed to get on the property ladder, the younger got hit by tuiton fees and can't even afford the deposit because house prices in London are the way they are. Everyday past, the situation simply gets worse. That's a crazy situation and I so wish we could wind the clock back. Only getting out of the EU could cool the property market.

Unfortunately this country is only good a creating low value jobs, and appallingly bad at producing them in manufacturing, where they create not merely profit for the companies, but for the exchequer too improving the balance of payments and through higher tax returns.
As the Chinese do.
Service industry jobs are really not of the same value for the future of the nation, we already have enough wheelie bin cleaning companies and hand car washes.

 

[tillson]

BREAKING NEWS:

Satan has declared that he is supporting the IN Campaign. Anyone voting out will be codemed to eternal damnation, their soul roasting for all time on Beelzebub's rotisserie.

You have been warned.

 

[trex]

Unfortunately this country is only good a creating low value jobs, and appallingly bad at producing them in manufacturing, where they create not merely profit for the companies, but for the exchequer too improving the balance of payments and through higher tax returns.
As the Chinese do.
Service industry jobs are really not of the same value for the future of the nation, we already have enough wheelie bin cleaning companies and hand car washes.

based on wages, we are behind Luxembourg, Denmark and Sweden but we produce better paid jobs than the rest of the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

So don't knock service sector jobs.

 

[flecc]

based on wages, we are behind Luxembourg, Denmark and Sweden but we produce better paid jobs than the rest of the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

So don't knock service sector jobs.

Agreed, but in isolation wage levels mean little, costs have to taken into account. Just look at our prohibitive housing costs, and our very high costs of second rate public transport. Much of Europe puts us into shame on these.
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[gray198]

Agreed, but in isolation wage levels mean little, costs have to taken into account. Just look at our prohibitive housing costs, and our very high costs of second rate public transport. Much of Europe puts us into shame on these.
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I wonder if our high housing costs are partly as a result of the extra amount of people living in the country. I know the politicians say that these extra people don't have any effect on housing and services etc, so maybe they don't live anywhere and don't use anything????

 

[flecc]

I wonder if our high housing costs are partly as a result of the extra amount of people living in the country. I know the politicians say that these extra people don't have any effect on housing and services etc, so maybe they don't live anywhere and don't use anything????

I can't say Gray, but I know that in London it's in part due to foreign investors buying up properties as investments and often leaving them empty. Overall it seems to be housing shortage, not due to the fairly recent immigration but due to very long term failures to build affordable homes.
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[trex]

I'd say put a punitive tax on empty properties in London, at least 1% of their value per annum. It's a disgrace.

 

[flecc]

I'd say put a punitive tax on empty properties in London, at least 1% of their value per annum. It's a disgrace.

I fully agree, but unfortunately much of the investment is Chinese and we are trying to cosy up to them at present for possible trading advantage.
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[Croxden]

I wonder if our high housing costs are partly as a result of the extra amount of people living in the country. I know the politicians say that these extra people don't have any effect on housing and services etc, so maybe they don't live anywhere and don't use anything????

Supply and demand, more demand & insufficient supply will create a price increase.

 

[trex]

I think the way to reconcile the two sides is to increase taxation.
successive goverments since Margaret Thatcher's have refused to tax more.
This has created the pull factor to London because the net take home pay is so much higher here than in France, Germany, Italy or Spain. Slap 10% on income tax and introduce the mansion tax will reduce EU immigration.

 

[trex]

 

[Yamdude]

Transylvania joining EU could see one million vampires in UK by 2020

The Vote Leave campaign has issued a stark warning that if Transylvania joins the EU, then the UK could find itself ‘overrun’ with vampires.

“It’s just simple numbers,” said Michael Gove.

“Transylvania has millions of vampires, and if we remain in the EU then we are putting out the welcome mat and Britain – which has been largely vampire-free since the 1800s – could be overrun with them.

“And that’s just vampires; we haven’t even started doing the maths on Frankensteins, werewolves, and Mummies.

“Simply put, the only way to guarantee that you and your family won’t have your blood drained by a hellish creature of the night is to vote for Brexit.

“And steer clear of Theresa May, obviously.”

The argument found favour with some members of the public.

“Yeah, I support leaving the EU,” said leaf measurer Simon Williams.

“The problem with the ‘In’ campaign is that it’s just a load of mad, hysterical stuff about the economy collapsing, and Europe going to war but they’re not saying anything about what matters to real people, like vampires and that.”

The Remain campaign have yet to respond but will almost certainly issue the statement – ‘we’re not in the Schengen Zone, so we’ve got the best of both worlds’, as they have done in response to any and all concerns about immigration since the campaign began.

 

[louisapedals]

I think its such a difficult subject to make an informed decision on as all ofthe misinformation and scaremongering leaves me very confused. My gut instinct is that overall the UK is better off in the EU and so I will vote in.

 

[trex]

Although I suspect that the BBC is slightly anti-brexit, their reality check website is pretty impartial.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35603388

Current poll status:

Remain: 54%
Leave: 46%

£1 = $1.465, highest since January. I think the value of the Pound is the best indication of who wins or loses.

 

[flecc]

Although I suspect that the BBC is slightly anti-brexit, their reality check website is pretty impartial.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35603388

Current poll status:

Remain: 54%
Leave: 46%

£1 = $1.465, highest since January. I think the value of the Pound is the best indication of who wins or loses.

The crazy thing is the weather on polling day might decide it, given it's close.

It's well known that the labour voter is more difficult to get out and widely accepted that good weather helps get them out. So, given political preferences, with a pleasant sunny day we may well exit the EU, but if a wet and windy polling day we'll be quite likely to remain in the EU.
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[trex]

I would have thought the opposite, a pleasant day would see the remainers win, a wet day would see us out of the EU. If one goes by the undecided panel on Newsnight with Evan Davis, the remainers seem to have the momentum in the last 2 weeks of TV debates.