Latest rear wheel conversion kit from Cyclotricity

[CardiffMark]

Just joined yesterday but have been on the site most days looking for pearls of wisdom. Took me a month to decide to convert my giant Talon 2 rather than buy a complete bike. Has now taken another month to decide which kit to go for. Would have definitely gone the BMS battery route if it wasn't for my own ineptitude. I'm actually not that bad with a spanner but ultimately wanted something that was hopefully going to be straightforward. NEARLY ordered an Oxydrive yesterday as the price has currently dropped from £829 to £699.
This morning I fell on a post on this site about the Cyclotricity rear drive 500W and 1000W kit. The thread had some concerns over the legality of using this kit. The primary reason I will be using the bike is to commute to work. Only 5 miles each way on the flat along a tarmac trail along the river Taff. All off road. Any of the 250W kits would have been fine for this. However, at the weekend I do get off road into the beautiful Welsh HILLS, hills being the optimum word. This Cyclotricity option of being able to 'restrict' the setup for the commute and then unleashing serious hill climbing potential for the off roady bits at the weekend seemed like a perfect answer. I have ordered the 1000W (in for a penny) with the 48V/11amp frame battery. I may well be asking for some fitting assistance very soon, although I am hoping Cyclotricity will be there as well should I encounter any problems (have heard good things about their support in the past). I will definitely be putting a post on here once it is up and running to give others some feedback on this new kit. Fingers crossed that the spanner gods are smiling on me!!!
I will not be going more than the legal limit on the commute, there are too many other people, dogs, cyclists about to even contemplate it.
I am not sure how the restriction works, power reduction or speed limit. I think the law restricts speed and power. If it was just limited to a maximum speed, then you could use the extra power to climb hills at the legal speed limit. The limitation of the 250 watt motor is that it is fine to reach 15 mph on the flat, but up a steep hill you would drop down to 7 or 8 mph, even if you were pretty fit. I think it would be safer if cyclists could maintain an even speed. Motorists may be happy to sit behind a bike doing 15 mph while they wait for a safe time to overtake, but if the cyclists speed suddenly drops to 5 mph due to an incline, the motorist will get impatient pretty quickly and may attempt to overtake before it is totally safe to do so. Rather than risk a head on with another car, he is more likely to squeeze the cyclist into the kerb.
Would love to hear what others think and if anyone else has fitted this new Cyclotricity kit yet.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I think that you're probably the first, so we're hoping for a full review from you.

Please show a picture of what you get when it arrives.

Frel free to ask any questions for anything that you don't understand.

As far as legality is concerned, it makes no difference whether you're off road or onroad, except if you're on private land with permission.

 

[CardiffMark]

Will do d8veh. Will hopefully arrive middle of next week.

 

[aardvark5]

I wish I'd seen your post before you ordered. On Saturday I had the misfortune to pick up a 1000 watt Cyclotricity wheel in an eBike shop and nearly put my back out. This is one heavy beast and not the type of bike you would want to ride without assistance. I went to the shop because I want to convert my hybrid (I already have a Cyclotricity Stealth but that's another story) and ended up going for the 250 watt again. There are no hills I can't get up with the Stealth with a bit of leg power added so I see no need for the 1000 watt. The bloke in the shop also estimated that the 1000 watt would last around 15 miles at full power and you honestly wouldn't want to run out of juice.

 

[Phil T]

Watching this thread with much interest..i'm another newcomer about to embark on the same conversion...

 

[CardiffMark]

Hi Phil
Kit has arrived today. Ordered Friday so no complaints there. As mentioned earlier the motor and wheel are heavy, about 8Kg. There must be a lot of windings in there. All the wiring appears custom made with all connectors colour coded so even I can't get it wrong. Haven't had time to have a good look at it all yet but first impressions are good. I promised d8veh a full report on what exactly came with the kit, which I will do as soon as I can. Only slight query on initial looking is that there doesn't appear to be a speed sensor, so not sure how the LCD display will know how fast it is going. The LCD appears to connect straight to the controller and there isn't anywhere on the LCD to connect a speed sensor wire to. Maybe d8veh my cast some light on it. Kind of thinking the 1000w may have been overkill and that the 500w with the 36v 15 amp battery would have done the job, but the proof of the pudding is in the pedalling, so we will see. Will keep you all updated.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The LCD will get the speed from the controller, which gets it from the motor. There'll be either a separate hall in the motor or the the controller can use the motor halls seeing as it's a DD motor.

 

[Phil T]

Hi Mark,
My kit arrived today too..I have resisted the temptation to open it as I'm off on holiday 1st thing tomorrow..
I was thinking the same about the 1000w motor..better too much than too little though eh? Can always run it at a lower level..
I'm back next Monday and looking forward to putting my kit together then..
Meantime I'll watch your progress with interest..
Enjoy!
Cheers,
Phil.

 

[CardiffMark]

The LCD will get the speed from the controller, which gets it from the motor. There'll be either a separate hall in the motor or the the controller can use the motor halls seeing as it's a DD motor.

Thanks for that d8veh. That was the only thing niggling me. Everything else seems to be in the kit.

 

[jackhandy]

Strewth - That's a hefty beast.
My Ezee back wheel & battery weigh about 8kg. together!
Should pull wheelies, no problem

 

[CardiffMark]

Strewth - That's a hefty beast.
My Ezee back wheel & battery weigh about 8kg. together!
Should pull wheelies, no problem

Couple of torque arms required I think. Are the Cycleeze still the ones to go for?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What size axle do you have ? x 10mm?

 

[CardiffMark]

What size axle do you have ? x 10mm?

Will check when I get home d8veh. I know the flat sides go in to the dropouts ok, although as you have mentioned in other posts, it doesn't go in as far as the QR axle, and the torque washer tab will sit outside the dropout. Bit of filing required possibly, although there is a nice flat bit of frame to tighten the nut up to. If I use the torque arms, could I give the torque washer a miss?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Normally, but not always, the anti-rotation washers go on the inside of the drop-out, so are necessary for correct spacing. You should file (Dremmel) the drop-outs deeper if there's enough material above them. Obviously, you mustn't compromise their strength. Assuming that you've got a 14mm axle, the centre will be about 4mm lower than it was before. As well as making the drop-outs deeper, you need to change the shape to match the axle.

 

[CardiffMark]

Normally, but not always, the anti-rotation washers go on the inside of the drop-out, so are necessary for correct spacing. You should file (Dremmel) the drop-outs deeper if there's enough material above them. Obviously, you mustn't compromise their strength. Assuming that you've got a 14mm axle, the centre will be about 4mm lower than it was before. As well as making the drop-outs deeper, you need to change the shape to match the axle.

Yep, 14mm axle and 10mm across the flat. Just noticed the derailleur hangs off an insert that overlaps part of the dropout, so don't really want to file too much off that, the other side could easily have 3 or 4 mm filed into it, but can't do one without the other!! The entire axle fits (just) inside the dropouts and would be clamped pretty well with the large 25mm wide nut that goes on the axle. With the axle sitting in the dropouts, there is only about 1mm space between the shoulder of the axle and the inside of the dropout, so no space for torque washers (or any washer) on inside of dropouts. Do you think if I put a torque arm on both sides of the axle, this would be sufficient?

 

[CardiffMark]

On another note (problem), with the disc connected to the wheel, there is only about a 12mm gap between the side of the motor and the disc, but the calliper is over 20mm from the brake pad back towards the motor, so no way will it fit. I doubt there is a calliper on the market that is less than 12mm wide from pad to edge of calliper. Obviously this is due to the width and diameter of the 1000w motor, but I don't think anyone will be able to use a disc with this option. The problem I now have is that because this bike is designed to use a disc, there aren't any lugs to fit V brakes...........so no back brake!!! Any suggestions?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

With the smaller geared motors, you can use a bigger disc to bring the caliper away from the motor. I guess this is not an option on yours, so you have to widen your frame and use a 6mm disc spacer like this. I can't find a link to the wider one just now:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hope-Brake-6-Bolt-Hub-Disc-Spacer-2-5mm-NEW-Alloy-/181263065658?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2a341ee23a

To install the motor, you have to start from the disc side. You'll probably need a washer or two inside the drop-out on the disc side to line up the disc with the caliper, then you need a spacer between the disc and motor to keep the caliper clear. Use a disc at least 180mm. Next, use appropriate spacers on the axle other end to clear the chain from the frame and not clamp the free-wheel. Finally, you have to dish the wheel to get the rim central. It's not unusual to have to stretch your frame 10mm or mor to get it all in. Normally, it'll spring that far without too much trouble, or you can give it a permanent set by over-stretching it, which makes puncture repair easier.

Some calipers are much narrower than others. There's a thread on Endless-sphere about it somewhere.

 

[Adampollitt]

I got the rear drive kit a couple of months ago and was hot with the same problem of clearance. For me I only needed to bend my brakes bracket abit with a big persuading device (metal bar) and shimed out the disc by putting a washer under each bolt. The disc is not quite central of the calliper and the clearance is minimal but works well for me and 500 miles in not been an issue yet.

 

[Cyclezee]

Couple of torque arms required I think. Are the Cycleeze still the ones to go for?

I should say so....but then I would wouldn't I

 

[ray74]

I would be very interested in seeing a picture of this build and hearing the review when finished. I have the cyclotricity 250w kit and done over 2500 miles on it since last October. I've been looking at this or the 500w kit so very interested to hear your thoughts.