L1e-A testing requirements

[shemozzle999]

Nothing to stop the UK suppliers into lobbying the UK Government to apply the Belgium's practical approach:

"This was the ultimate proof of the absurdity of including these bicycles in the type-approval. In Belgium you can ride an electric bicycle 25 km/h with a motor power of 251 W to 1KW without a helmet, without a number plate, without a driving licence and wherever conventional bicycles ride. However, the bike must be type-approved as soon as the motor power is 251 W"

but there is an article within the EU regulation that they might consider harmonising vehicle law EU wide in the future but that would not effect the UK now we are leaving.

 

[flecc]

Nothing to stop the UK suppliers into lobbying the UK Government to apply the Belgium's practical approach:

True, but our legislative record in this area is depressing to say the least. Twelve years to get the correction to 250 watts and the years of the trade lobbying for the S class came to nothing.

The ludicrous situation in Northern Ireland within the UK where pedelecs are regarded as motorcycles is another example where central UK government action has been necessary for over 14 years.
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[shemozzle999]

It requires the electric bicycle industry to create a voice of its own and fight its own corner rather than link itself to other trade bodies which see it as competition.

Perhaps a less hostile approach towards the Government department involved may produce a more favorable result especially if they are looking to promote new business opportunities post leaving the UK.

NI transport control has been devolved thus is a matter for NI.

 

[anotherkiwi]

There is a flaw in your theory: the market for e-bikes in the UK is not going to be big enough for constructors to make special versions so best idea is to support LEVA-EU in their fight for logical and practical rules for light electrical vehicles.

We don't want the mess they have in the US: different rules for each state (imagine living in one state and working in another - you can't go by e-bike in some cases), some states downright ban e-bikes...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

"This was the ultimate proof of the absurdity of including these bicycles in the type-approval. In Belgium you can ride an electric bicycle 25 km/h with a motor power of 251 W to 1KW without a helmet, without a number plate, without a driving licence and wherever conventional bicycles ride. However, the bike must be type-approved as soon as the motor power is 251 W"

but there is an article within the EU regulation that they might consider harmonising vehicle law EU wide in the future but that would not effect the UK now we are leaving.

There's nothing to stop you fitting a 25 amp 36v 250w Bafang BBS01 nor a 28A 36v Heinzmann 200W hub-motor. You get all the power you need and all the freedoms of bicycle, i.e. no need for helmet, number plate, license or insurance. There are plenty of other high power 250w motors you can use if those two don't float your boat.

I saw a cargo trike with that Heinzmann kit in Bristol. He could power up Park Street at about 15 mph without pedalling. What more do you want?

 

[flecc]

NI transport control has been devolved thus is a matter for NI.

I'm well aware of that of course since it's why the N.I. situation exists, but the central UK government still has an overall responsibility and could have acted. They've taken back direct rule before and to have left all N.I. devolved mandatory EU orders not complied with there over 14 years to date has been an abdication of central government duty.
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[shemozzle999]

There's nothing to stop you fitting a 25 amp 36v 250w Bafang BBS01 nor a 28A 36v Heinzmann 200W hub-motor. You get all the power you need and all the freedoms of bicycle, i.e. no need for helmet, number plate, license or insurance. There are plenty of other high power 250w motors you can use if those two don't float your boat.

I saw a cargo trike with that Heinzmann kit in Bristol. He could power up Park Street at about 15 mph without pedalling. What more do you want?

Was it being used as intended i.e. carrying a load when you saw it?

 

[shemozzle999]

I'm well aware of that of course since it's why the N.I. situation exists, but the central UK government still has an overall responsibility and could have acted. They've taken back direct rule before and to have left all N.I. devolved mandatory EU orders not complied with there over 14 years to date has been an abdication of central government duty.
.

They have devolved powers it is up to them how to apply them.

 

[flecc]

They have devolved powers it is up to them how to apply them.

You are missing the point that they have no sitting assembly and had no sitting assemblies at the crucial previous times,

Therefore no devolved power authority existed at those times, but the central UK supremacy did and therefore that government had responsibilities. With both parties EU members, those responsibilities included compliance with EU mandatory orders and resumption of direct rule gives the necessary authority.

Devolved issue or not, EU mandatory orders were not optional for the N.I. Assembly.
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[Deleted member 4366]

Was it being used as intended i.e. carrying a load when you saw it?

A couple of illegal immigrants, polonium and a jar of novichok, I think, but I didn't look too close.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Off topic!

We are straying away from the very interesting point of view of the LEVA-EU that type approval is good for mopeds but not for bicycles. And that the world (the UK still wants to belong to that? ) needs clean, safe and economical light vehicles, especially in cities and ones that are fit for purpose. For cargo bikes that would mean >250 W <1001 W rated motors.

 

[flecc]

There's nothing to stop you fitting a 25 amp 36v 250w Bafang BBS01 nor a 28A 36v Heinzmann 200W hub-motor.

Still not enough for cargo purposes. The Brox pedicabs and 5 cwt vans had that Heinzmann option and with low speed gearing. On test loaded it was good for 8 mph maximum on the flat, but gentle hills were a very slow crawl with very hard pedalling assistance. No chance on anything steeper.

They were also available with the Lynch rear axle motor which could exceed 4 kW at very low speeds, but in the pedicab version with two passengers could still only climb very slowly at a crawl and needed monster batteries to deliver the current.

These heavy load vehicles don't need speed, for safety 8 mph is quite enough, but for any slopes they do need very much more than the best 250 watt motors can give. The 1000 watts rating of L1e-A is at least a better option.
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[shemozzle999]

Latest meeting agenda:

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/07e67ca6-4428-481d-812e-69b64e72d09c/MCWG_2018_11_27 draft_V0.3 agenda.pdf

Assistance factor and exemptions on cycles designed to pedal discussed.

 

[shemozzle999]

Asking for industry stakeholder input regarding investigation into 4 times power limit - L1e-B vehicles.

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/404e3ef2-2246-4141-b174-23abcc9f1d6a/TRL Presentation to EC motorcycle working group 27-11-18 TR-JC.pdf

 

[flecc]

Asking for industry stakeholder input regarding investigation into 4 times power limit - L1e-B vehicles.

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/404e3ef2-2246-4141-b174-23abcc9f1d6a/TRL Presentation to EC motorcycle working group 27-11-18 TR-JC.pdf

Interesting development, perhaps meaning that we are considering permitting the S class here with less onerous rules than L1e-B.

Hopefully not the opposite, ceasing the S class admission into L1e-B or reducing permitted power.

At least they've acknowledged that insufficient data will be available on S class accidents to reach conclusions.
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[Jimo]

I’m a newcomer to pedelecs - and new owner of a lovely 2011 BB Quarts folder e-bike plus a powrbike I bought new in 2006 only used a few times, at this moment I’m considering buying a BB Trike 20 for my wife that its present owner says he has had for at least 5 years making it produced in 2013 or earlier.

I ‘ve been reading most of the above ‘legalese’ sounding articles and now feel worried that none of my bikes may be legal and may not be used on british roads......HELP PLEASE! Can I or can’t I?

Jim

 

[flecc]

I’m a newcomer to pedelecs - and new owner of a lovely 2011 BB Quarts folder e-bike plus a powrbike I bought new in 2006 only used a few times, at this moment I’m considering buying a BB Trike 20 for my wife that its present owner says he has had for at least 5 years making it produced in 2013 or earlier.

I ‘ve been reading most of the above ‘legalese’ sounding articles and now feel worried that none of my bikes may be legal and may not be used on british roads......HELP PLEASE! Can I or can’t I?

Jim

Your e-bikes and the proposed trike are all completely legal and there's nothing to worry about Jim.

There are lots of little wrinkles in the changing legal situation over the years and not everything applies to all e-bikes.

If there's a particular point you want clarified, post back for an answer.
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[Jimo]

flecc, Thany you for the info, your input is extremely gratifying.

Jim

 

[shemozzle999]

Link to latest minutes and agenda for next meeting:

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/f11ea547-9368-46cc-a21f-36c10216d770/MCWG_2019_03_19 draft_V1.pdf

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/12349e51-a95e-49c7-b5ce-dcddd0cf9fd7/Draft minutes MCWG_2018_11_27(0).pdf

 

[Jimo]

Well, after that discourse (above) the mind boggles, so many abreviations it becomes very difficult to interpret - no doubt intended by the EC!

I have enough trouble with ‘Idiot Lights’ and OBD (On-board-diagnostic) displays on my car already - so now the EC want to fit the thing to motorcycles as well, god save us.


Jim