Kudos Arriba 25MPH ;-)
- Thread starter celedep
- Start date
I think to be honest, the vast majority of people who might use an eBike for commuting any distance are put off by the 15mph cutoff. Having this on short distance utility bikes is one thing (and a grand+ is a lot to pay for something of that limited use and a limited battery life) but for tourers, longer range commuters and transport bikes it's simply too low and the market has already made that very clear.
The govt may crack down on the enforcement front viz higher powered bikes or ones which have been derestricted for higher assist cutoff speed. If they do, fine - all it will do is put a big damper on the industry as a whole. Many people may well just take the view that if they can't have a derestricted eBike they won't bother with one at all. The winners will be the unpowered fast bike industry & motor dealers. E-bike suppliers are certainly not going to benefit from either a crackdown or a step up in anti-tamper features.
The govt may crack down on the enforcement front viz higher powered bikes or ones which have been derestricted for higher assist cutoff speed. If they do, fine - all it will do is put a big damper on the industry as a whole. Many people may well just take the view that if they can't have a derestricted eBike they won't bother with one at all. The winners will be the unpowered fast bike industry & motor dealers. E-bike suppliers are certainly not going to benefit from either a crackdown or a step up in anti-tamper features.
kudosdave,
resist the dark side! Leave Frank to it.
where you lead, others follow - if only because you sell a lot more bikes than they do!
My bike is quite legal and I stand no chance of being prosecuted. So no, I won't be putting it away.
103Alex1.....the government are clearly not cracking down on high speed/high power ebikes,this forum with its open admission from members using such bikes on the road demonstrates that there is no crackdown and little fear of prosecution.
I doubt any of these people would consider taking an unregistered/untaxed/no number plate/no helmet etc etc motorbike, but because it looks like a bicycle its alright.
Governments have a knee jerk reaction after an event.....how many times have we heard government departments make that statement 'lessons have been learnt',always retrospective.
I think the solution is in good design. Our performance series are getting lighter and will continue getting lighter,these light bikes are actually not bad to ride unassisted,the power is useful to get up to speed,to get up steep hills and ride when you are tired but if you want to ride at 25mph the bike should be as easy to ride as an unassisted bike at speed. I can see an ebike down at 12-15kgs,every component will get lighter....the BH bikes are moving in this direction.
Two years ago these bikes were average 25kgs,now 20kgs is common.The difficulty is reducing the weight without a big increase in cost.
With the lighter weight the desire to derestrict becomes superfluous.
KudosDave
Market forces will prevail irrespective of the ludicrous restrictions despite scaremongering about possible crackdowns, and lets not think that the max speed of a bike is a standard operating speed but a optional choice as they are with most vehicles
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keep up grandpa! just a little more help needed?
Some posters here have mentioned the need to upgrade brakes etc in order to cope with the speeds in excess of 15 miles per hour. however most people will regularly overhaul the 15 mph limit just by the dint of the pedals on the flat!. A friend of mine regularly tours at close to 18 mph average speed on his non hydraulic rim braked racer and does not suffer from poor brake related scary moments. His cycle computer recorded 45mph down some of our local hills and remain in control. ( not my cup of tea however).
Even as a recent returnee to cycling in my middle age after a break of nearly 30yrs I can manage to travel in excess of 16mph as a 'norm' therefore getting no assistance for the bulk of my journey. Whilst I am pleased with the assistance my bike gives me on hills and therefore, ultimately happy with my purchase, surely restricting the assistance of a bike to LESS THAN MOST PEOPLE PEDAL AT is a bit of a drawback for vendors and a disincentive for users who do not regularly tackle hills on their commute. Perhaps a rise in speed to something closer to an average cycling speed of an efficient bike, say 18mph is not an unreasonable goal thereby extending the assistance to just about the whole journey for the majority. Surely this desire doesn't mean that the rider is a speed freaking hell angel just for wanting a bit of help at keeping up with a much fitter crowd who can do such speeds unassisted does it?
Some posters here have mentioned the need to upgrade brakes etc in order to cope with the speeds in excess of 15 miles per hour. however most people will regularly overhaul the 15 mph limit just by the dint of the pedals on the flat!. A friend of mine regularly tours at close to 18 mph average speed on his non hydraulic rim braked racer and does not suffer from poor brake related scary moments. His cycle computer recorded 45mph down some of our local hills and remain in control. ( not my cup of tea however).
Even as a recent returnee to cycling in my middle age after a break of nearly 30yrs I can manage to travel in excess of 16mph as a 'norm' therefore getting no assistance for the bulk of my journey. Whilst I am pleased with the assistance my bike gives me on hills and therefore, ultimately happy with my purchase, surely restricting the assistance of a bike to LESS THAN MOST PEOPLE PEDAL AT is a bit of a drawback for vendors and a disincentive for users who do not regularly tackle hills on their commute. Perhaps a rise in speed to something closer to an average cycling speed of an efficient bike, say 18mph is not an unreasonable goal thereby extending the assistance to just about the whole journey for the majority. Surely this desire doesn't mean that the rider is a speed freaking hell angel just for wanting a bit of help at keeping up with a much fitter crowd who can do such speeds unassisted does it?
have to agree ,my bike is set at 18 mph assistance, [by me] because my normal cadance on any bike is about 18 mph, i can keep this up for long distance, any slower would tire me out quicker, i dont zoom about like a bat out of hell,i cycle with due care and attention, always trying to think two moves in front more so the roads, 
I regularly exceed 15mph. 20, even 25 with a strong following wind. Downhill section, 40 mph +
My hydraulic brakes, tyres and the cycle mechanics are more that up the job.
I might add that I'm talking about my non ebike, human power only.
Must admit I had the same problem Riding along flat roads at 15.-17mph and with the bike was instruction on how to use and reset the computer so I reset it to 30 kmph and now enjoy a smoother ride. Downhill I go faster without assistance my bike copes adequately with speeds in excess of 30 mph.
I ride carefully, particularly when sharing space with pedestrians and I would be very surprised if the overstretched boys in blue would have the time and resources to catch and prosecute me. Yes its technically against the law as apparently are all 250 watt machines are. I would be interested to know if there is anyone on this site who has never broken a law.
I ride carefully, particularly when sharing space with pedestrians and I would be very surprised if the overstretched boys in blue would have the time and resources to catch and prosecute me. Yes its technically against the law as apparently are all 250 watt machines are. I would be interested to know if there is anyone on this site who has never broken a law.
Some simple points of logic for all those commenting:
How does the 15 mph limit obstruct the market when the "pedelec" countries like the Netherlands have booming limited-speed pedelec sales at a very large multiple of ours?
Why do so many e-bikers here consider throttles essential when they don't exist in those booming continental markets?
Anyone who normally or regularly cycles at over 15 mph clearly doesn't need assistance on the flat. Surely no-one is asking for assistance to climb hills at over 15 mph?
Think of what the word assist means. Cycling assistance is for those who need assistance. Those who seek something better than their perfectly satisfactory normal cycling performance are in reality dissatisfied with cycling and wanting a motor vehicle.
How does the 15 mph limit obstruct the market when the "pedelec" countries like the Netherlands have booming limited-speed pedelec sales at a very large multiple of ours?
Why do so many e-bikers here consider throttles essential when they don't exist in those booming continental markets?
Anyone who normally or regularly cycles at over 15 mph clearly doesn't need assistance on the flat. Surely no-one is asking for assistance to climb hills at over 15 mph?
Think of what the word assist means. Cycling assistance is for those who need assistance. Those who seek something better than their perfectly satisfactory normal cycling performance are in reality dissatisfied with cycling and wanting a motor vehicle.
Your so wrong in my case flecc I have an ordinary push bike and at 62 and far from fit I am not able to ride at 15-17mph plus I struggle on the hills. I don't want a car cos I no longer have a license(health reasons) and driving one would attract blue flashing lights. You seem to be confusing logic with your own onion of which of course you are entitled to.
Please read what I posted, particularly the third point, since you've clearly either misread it or not understood what I posted. I am not wrong and the logic is impeccable.
I posted about people who normally or regularly cycle at over 15 mph which you clearly are not. I posted nothing against you having assistance, so why the contradiction?
Not necessarily. Riding a utility bike loaded with stuff at over 15mph can still be hard work.
As to taking hills at the same speed you would ride a road bike on the flat - why not ?
When eBikes start removing the downsides of unassisted cycling (significant speed reduction on climbs) they start earning their astronomic battery price tags and weight disadvantages !
The thread started off in the regular Ebike section and was moved to off road, where it belongs.
Its like suggesting that Ferraris and superbikes and the like are banned, or restricted to 70mph.
In built up areas or on cycle paths being shared by others I cycle at the same speed as they do. When I am commuting between towns on wide deserted paths I'll do 25. When I have hills to negotiate they take the hard work out of it for me and make it do-able.
I am 60+ and weigh 90kg.
If I hadn't got such a bike I would own an extra car. I've had e-bikes for over 8 years but those early models were just something I could use for convenience when away with the motorhome. Today, with the extra power available and the way I have "tweaked" them they have become a meaningful mode of transport for me.
In built up areas or on cycle paths being shared by others I cycle at the same speed as they do. When I am commuting between towns on wide deserted paths I'll do 25. When I have hills to negotiate they take the hard work out of it for me and make it do-able.
I am 60+ and weigh 90kg.
If I hadn't got such a bike I would own an extra car. I've had e-bikes for over 8 years but those early models were just something I could use for convenience when away with the motorhome. Today, with the extra power available and the way I have "tweaked" them they have become a meaningful mode of transport for me.
Having read through this thread from start to finish, the thing that stands out clearly is that people want the bike to assist or to power them along at a speed greater than 15 MPH. I also ride an unassisted bike, probably more regularly than my Ebike, and I am reasonably fit. When cycling along level ground on my UNASSISTED bike to and from work and not competing in an event, I maintain about 15 MPH. This is the same speed to which my Ebike assists. The Ebike is a bit quicker up hills than the unassisted bike and both will do about 45 MPH down the steepest hills in my area. Overall, the Ebike is a bit quicker because of the help it gives me going up hill. If I use the unassisted bike and my wife, who hardly ever cycles and has had a full knee replacement, uses the electric bike, we more or less equal in pace when leisure cycling.
The above is the whole point of an electrically assisted bicycle as defined by the present law. It exists in order to allow someone who is not particularly fit to perform on a bicycle to a similar standard as an average fit rider. It is not intended to power a person along the level at 25 MPH + like a moped. This simply isn't what ebikes are for or what they were ever intended to be. We have moped laws for higher speeds and that includes electric mopeds if you don't like the emissions from IC engines. People have then gone on to say, "but I don't want to pay for insurance and road tax and I want to ride in cycle lanes." I don't particularly enjoy paying for road tax and insurance on my car, but it's something I have to do. It comes with car ownership in the same way that responsibility comes with moped ownership. All of this garbage about cars being able to exceed the speed limit is just that, irrelevant garbage. Cars, by definition in law, are able to do that in the same way that bicycles, by law, can do things that a car can't. They are two entirely different entities each with their own list of advantages and disadvantages. To cherry pick elements of each and then contrast them to form an argument is plain stupid.
This isn't about do-gooding or holier than thou attitudes, it's about being a responsible person. To think otherwise is an admission of having lost both the argument and a sense of moral responsibility.
No one is saying that a person can't own or use an electric bike which is capable of greater than 15 MPH under power, you can do this. But you must realise that it is no longer a "bicycle" in law and you must forego the easements in law which the compliant electrically assisted bicycle owners enjoy.
There really isn't anything clever about putting a high power motor and large capacity battery on a bike. It's easy to do. You just need an eBay account and a roll of tape. The present range of legal bikes and kits are well developed and will allow people who are unfit or have a disability to perform at a level similar to or better than the average cyclist. If you want anything more than this, that is fine, but but you have to do it intelligently and properly. You owe that to the vast majority of legal bike owners and retailers.
The above is the whole point of an electrically assisted bicycle as defined by the present law. It exists in order to allow someone who is not particularly fit to perform on a bicycle to a similar standard as an average fit rider. It is not intended to power a person along the level at 25 MPH + like a moped. This simply isn't what ebikes are for or what they were ever intended to be. We have moped laws for higher speeds and that includes electric mopeds if you don't like the emissions from IC engines. People have then gone on to say, "but I don't want to pay for insurance and road tax and I want to ride in cycle lanes." I don't particularly enjoy paying for road tax and insurance on my car, but it's something I have to do. It comes with car ownership in the same way that responsibility comes with moped ownership. All of this garbage about cars being able to exceed the speed limit is just that, irrelevant garbage. Cars, by definition in law, are able to do that in the same way that bicycles, by law, can do things that a car can't. They are two entirely different entities each with their own list of advantages and disadvantages. To cherry pick elements of each and then contrast them to form an argument is plain stupid.
This isn't about do-gooding or holier than thou attitudes, it's about being a responsible person. To think otherwise is an admission of having lost both the argument and a sense of moral responsibility.
No one is saying that a person can't own or use an electric bike which is capable of greater than 15 MPH under power, you can do this. But you must realise that it is no longer a "bicycle" in law and you must forego the easements in law which the compliant electrically assisted bicycle owners enjoy.
There really isn't anything clever about putting a high power motor and large capacity battery on a bike. It's easy to do. You just need an eBay account and a roll of tape. The present range of legal bikes and kits are well developed and will allow people who are unfit or have a disability to perform at a level similar to or better than the average cyclist. If you want anything more than this, that is fine, but but you have to do it intelligently and properly. You owe that to the vast majority of legal bike owners and retailers.
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But for those your need a license,MOT,tax insurance etc and can face severe penalties for going faster than speed limit (fines,loss of license and even jail). none of which applies to a bicycle or legal pedelec.
I think folk are perhaps uncertain about the definition of "off road".
Unless you personally own the land or have the specific land owners permission then "off road" relating to tracks, footpaths, bridal ways etc. where the general public have access is surely subject to the same laws as on road, ie. you can't just de-restrict your bike when you leave tarmac and stay legal.
I don't have any great desire to law break but my throttle only kit gives power up to around 20+ mph without any means of reducing.
D
Deleted member 4366
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I will remind you all that riding a 250w bike on the road is illegal. The UK law is 200w. People started selling and riding 250w bikes because they were allowed in other countries. All those hypocritical people on this forum that insist that the law should be followed to the letter were/are also party to this illegal act.
Then, there were so many people including, prominent politicians, using and them that it would have been a mess if someone was prosecuted. BEBA wrote to the Dept of Transport, and because of the critical mass of illegal 250w bike riders and sellers, the D of T gave us a sort of amnesty from prosecution, but if you ask them, they will still tell you that 250w bikes cannot be used in public places because that is the law.
So, if you don't want people to ride at over 15mph, please say so on the basis of any rational argument, but please don't do it on the basis of legality when you're riding round on a 250w bike.
Then, there were so many people including, prominent politicians, using and them that it would have been a mess if someone was prosecuted. BEBA wrote to the Dept of Transport, and because of the critical mass of illegal 250w bike riders and sellers, the D of T gave us a sort of amnesty from prosecution, but if you ask them, they will still tell you that 250w bikes cannot be used in public places because that is the law.
So, if you don't want people to ride at over 15mph, please say so on the basis of any rational argument, but please don't do it on the basis of legality when you're riding round on a 250w bike.
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