Kalkoff batteries again !
- Thread starter One_Box
- Start date
Yes, but not the result I wanted.
50Cycles tested the battery and found that it was electrically sound.
The damage to the case was in their opinion caused by the battery being dropped (although I have not dropped it!) and therefore would not be covered by the warranty. It was then returned to me 30 mins before I set off on a cycling holiday to France ( not using my Kalkoff I might add ! ).
When I return from holiday I will work out the best way to repair the casing. As you can imagine at the moment I'm not impressed either with my Kalkoff or 50Cycles but will give it several weeks before making a decision whether to sell the bike and buy something different. My wife has a Woosh Petite which cost less than the retail price of a 17Ah Kalkoff battery. We bought it when the model was introduced in Sept'14 and it has not gone wrong once. It just shows that spending 2K on a bike is no guarantee of anything
50Cycles tested the battery and found that it was electrically sound.
The damage to the case was in their opinion caused by the battery being dropped (although I have not dropped it!) and therefore would not be covered by the warranty. It was then returned to me 30 mins before I set off on a cycling holiday to France ( not using my Kalkoff I might add ! ).
When I return from holiday I will work out the best way to repair the casing. As you can imagine at the moment I'm not impressed either with my Kalkoff or 50Cycles but will give it several weeks before making a decision whether to sell the bike and buy something different. My wife has a Woosh Petite which cost less than the retail price of a 17Ah Kalkoff battery. We bought it when the model was introduced in Sept'14 and it has not gone wrong once. It just shows that spending 2K on a bike is no guarantee of anything
I can understand them thinking that, since cracked battery casings through dropping them are not uncommon, I've suffered two.
One was down to the delivery service as shown here, but the other was down to me.
That was when I was riding very fast down a long steep bumpy hill and I only realised the battery had come adrift when it overtook me on the tarmac.
I repaired both casings and they both gave me their full life, in fact the one I broke was still ok when I sold the e-bike four years later.
.
I have to say that I am becoming a but less impressed with Kalkhoff bikes lately, having been a keen advocate of some excellent bikes. We bought a Tasman recently as a reserve for y wife's ProConnect when it gets beyond it's time (hopeful a good while yet).
Our original Panasonic motored bikes, two ProConnects and ProConnect S have been practically faultless, over a total of near on 30,000 miles split between the three bikes and still. On original batteries.. The bikes always attract attention when we are out, with really good proper paint jobs as opposed to cheap plastic decal and sticky-on aluminium K as badging on the Tasman. The old bikes are head-turners. We get into many conversations and have always extolled the benefits of both pedelecs and Kalkhoffs in particular. Given early experience of, and some reports on this site, my confidence in recommending the latest brood of Kalkhoffs has been coloured. I shall be offering caution in recommending the latest bikes, and will advise that finding a little-used older Panasonic model a better option, particularly for novice pedelecers.
Some of the development of the Kalkhoff brand had been just for development's sake. I think the build quality is poorer, The decals are cheap, the battery suspect, and other niggling issues. It is poor that I have to make a 180 mile round trip to Shoreham, to have the software altered because the wheel size is incorrectly set to 28" instead of 26" of my wife' model. It has to be reset, because itincorrectly reduces by more than 5% the assist speed, and overestimates the distance travelled. This should be sorted by Quality Control at Kalkhoff, or even better, a proper Quality Check by 50cycles, BEFORE sending the bikes out. The pre delivery check at best looks cursory. We have conflicting advice from 50cycles as to whether the battery terminals should float (be loose) in the battery compartment.
Our original Panasonic motored bikes, two ProConnects and ProConnect S have been practically faultless, over a total of near on 30,000 miles split between the three bikes and still. On original batteries.. The bikes always attract attention when we are out, with really good proper paint jobs as opposed to cheap plastic decal and sticky-on aluminium K as badging on the Tasman. The old bikes are head-turners. We get into many conversations and have always extolled the benefits of both pedelecs and Kalkhoffs in particular. Given early experience of, and some reports on this site, my confidence in recommending the latest brood of Kalkhoffs has been coloured. I shall be offering caution in recommending the latest bikes, and will advise that finding a little-used older Panasonic model a better option, particularly for novice pedelecers.
Some of the development of the Kalkhoff brand had been just for development's sake. I think the build quality is poorer, The decals are cheap, the battery suspect, and other niggling issues. It is poor that I have to make a 180 mile round trip to Shoreham, to have the software altered because the wheel size is incorrectly set to 28" instead of 26" of my wife' model. It has to be reset, because itincorrectly reduces by more than 5% the assist speed, and overestimates the distance travelled. This should be sorted by Quality Control at Kalkhoff, or even better, a proper Quality Check by 50cycles, BEFORE sending the bikes out. The pre delivery check at best looks cursory. We have conflicting advice from 50cycles as to whether the battery terminals should float (be loose) in the battery compartment.
My Agutta Impulse 1 2013 model is built like the proverbial brick building and has a very good and durable powder coated paint finish. But when I looked at the current Pro Connect models a few months ago I thought the paintwork looked a bit ordinary in comparison.
It might be that with competition and cost pressures they are cutting corners a bit more perhaps? The Impulse batteries seem to have a few issues too. But of all the ones sold you tend to hear only about the problem ones, so who knows really? Certainly most of the competition have their problems as well, and you read of real horror stories with some.
It might be that with competition and cost pressures they are cutting corners a bit more perhaps? The Impulse batteries seem to have a few issues too. But of all the ones sold you tend to hear only about the problem ones, so who knows really? Certainly most of the competition have their problems as well, and you read of real horror stories with some.
I agree John, the powder coat finishes are superior, and I hate the plastic decals. Not sure it is all costs pressures from the competition. I have the view that some developments, e.g belt drives, automatic gears, pauses to drive when gear changing, are merely a method to a). Just a complication which can be something else to go wrong (correct hub gear riding style is all that's needed with a pause whilst changing or b). More likely i suggest it is a means to increase the asking price yet further. Kalkhoff bikes are getting progressively dearer. Never been a first adopter, hence buying a new bike with a chain before they are all belt drives. For me, the advantages are minimal. Chains serve me well enough and are easy to replace and, if needs be, mend on the hoof.
I agree with your thoughts. There wasn't a lot wrong with the older Panasonic driven Kalkhoffs. They are powerful, look good, retain their appearance thanks to tough build and paint standards, and the drive train being 1/8 is cheap to maintain and virtually indestructible too.
In some ways, the latest model Kalkhoffs are inferior to the older ones. Second hand Panasonic Kalkhoffs can be bought for around the £300 mark and with new 18 Ah batteries costing under £400, this is where the clever buyer can pick up a really good bargain bike that will look good and last for years.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
I found the old Panasonic motor too weak to get me up hills that I could get up with a basic Bafang SWX hub-motor. It's not got nearly as much torque as a Kalkhoff Impulse motor, not even as much as the weaker first version by a long way. They're only really suitable for light people.
I really don't understand why you couldn't get up certain hills on a Panasonic bike. My bike feels like it would climb anything and no hill has ever defeated me or the bike. And believe me, it has climbed some long and very steep hills.
I'm quite light now (78Kg) but whilst I have owned this bike I have peaked at 100 Kg. I can therefore say with absolute certainty that the bike is well suited to people up to 100 Kg. I don't know if it will perform as well with a rider > 100 Kg because I have no experience on which to base such a statement.
I find the question of motor torque to be misleading. Isn't torque (T) simply motor power (P) divided by the speed of the motor shaft (w)
T= P/w
You can therefore make the weakest of motors in terms of raw power deliver massive torque simply by gearing down the output shaft's rotational speed. The smaller you make (w) by gearing the greater torque becomes.
I believe this to be the beauty of crank drives. Torque at the back wheel (which is where it counts) can be optimised and varied through the bike's gearing.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
I tried two different ones at Presteigne. After the first one, they told me I was pedalling wrong. I took their advice on the second one, but it was the same. It completely stalled out on the test hill. I got up it on every other bike that I tested. The Bosch flew up it. Funkylyn found the same when she tested one. I was quite fit then. I managed the tour on the previous day on my 250w Bafang, and that had a lot of very steep hills, some quite long.
There definitely is a technique to riding the early Panasonics. The motor cuts out on pedal cadence, not road speed. You can therefore be riding quite slowly up hill and find that the motor cuts out if you rotate the pedals too fast. Also, if your cadence drops below a certain level the motor will cut out. The two points are quite wide apart, but you do need to work with the gears to some extent to keep cadence in the sweet spot. Once mastered, which doesn't take long, these old agricultural machines are a match for the newer bikes.
How many chains and cassettes did you get through on the test ride?
Dave, I think you'd have a better impression if you had tried one with a bigger motor sprocket
That keeps the power coming at a higher cadence.
I kept pedaling past the power cut off on my Agattu when i first got it but found it perfect and well capable when I went up a couple of teeth.
That keeps the power coming at a higher cadence.
I kept pedaling past the power cut off on my Agattu when i first got it but found it perfect and well capable when I went up a couple of teeth.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
That wasn't the problem. My cadence started high, but it just got slower and slower until it stopped. I couldn't pedal faster because I was already in first gear and didn't have enough power for the steep hill.
My Panasonic powered bikes multiply my input x 1.5 on maximum setting which is enough to get me up a 1 : 5 incline, near where I live, at 6.5mph.
I guess the latest bikes that can multiply your power x3 will climb easier but my old kalkhoff has plenty of oomph for me.
I guess the latest bikes that can multiply your power x3 will climb easier but my old kalkhoff has plenty of oomph for me.
Reference to some of the foregoing comments I do think that some e-bikers who are 'old hands' at this pedelec lark are a little out of touch with how much improvement in performance is available from the current developed e-bikes.
When I first started riding pedelecs our 24 volt bikes seemed ok but recently test riding a 24 volt old stock against a BPM motored bike the difference is considerable.
The point I am making is that it is easy to become comfortable with a bike and if not testing bikes every year not realise that the older technology has been considerably upstaged.
That was the advantage of the Redbridge event,it gave a long enough ride with hills to give a real feel of these bikes,the short test track at shows such as the NEC,without a proper hill,give a false impression of the bike.
Must do some more road shows next year.
KudosDave
When I first started riding pedelecs our 24 volt bikes seemed ok but recently test riding a 24 volt old stock against a BPM motored bike the difference is considerable.
The point I am making is that it is easy to become comfortable with a bike and if not testing bikes every year not realise that the older technology has been considerably upstaged.
That was the advantage of the Redbridge event,it gave a long enough ride with hills to give a real feel of these bikes,the short test track at shows such as the NEC,without a proper hill,give a false impression of the bike.
Must do some more road shows next year.
KudosDave
I know the Kalkhoff Impulse 11 is a good bit more powerful than my Impulse 1 because I tried one. But I’m not at all sure I want the extra power. I have to work quite hard to go as fast as I like to go up the steep hills where I cycle, but I want to work hard because I want a work out.
I know I could always turn it down but then why have it? I’d like a lighter less powerful motor and bike maybe rather than yet more power in a 25 kilo bike.
I know I could always turn it down but then why have it? I’d like a lighter less powerful motor and bike maybe rather than yet more power in a 25 kilo bike.
Last week, I went out on a 50+ mile ride. I was on my 24 Volt 7 year old Panasonic crank driven Kalkhoff, my friend was riding a Kalkhoff Pro Connect 11 speed with Impulse 2 motor. The bike is less than a year old. I've also ridden this bike.
The main difference between the two is that the newer bike's motor cuts out at a defined road speed, not pedal cadence like mine. That's a nice feature and an improvement on my older Pro Connect. The new bike also has disk brakes front and rear, which I also like. But that's about it, I can see absolutely no other benefit.
Power is a difficult one to define. On level ground, just turning the pedals with virtually no effort will propell my bike to cut off speed, so no more power required there. Any extra would not be used. On steep hills, again doing little more than turning the pedals with very little effort, the newer Kalkhoff might climb 2 mph faster, certainly no more. So, given that a typical bike ride is a mixture of climbs, level ground and descents, the new bike only wins on the climbs and only by 2 mph. On something like a 20 mile ride (neglecting traffic) with 5 miles of hills, the new Kalkhoff will only be 5 mins quicker. Is it worth it?
I don't think the new bikes are really that far ahead of some of the older ones. I think my 2008 Kalkhoff was streets ahead of the competition back then. The competition may have made up some ground over the years, but overall I don't think things have moved on that much. In some cases, they have gone backwards, broken chains, miniature chain wheels, belts, shift assist are just a few.
An interesting perspective, I'm bound to say.
I think some of your remarks in your closing paragraph have merit, for example, the complexity now being added to simple mechanical processes is reminiscent of some motor industry 'progress' introduced over recent years which may have ticked some boxes but did little or nothing for the driving experience in most people's hands.
Bikes are fairly simple contraptions and those with the least component parts seem to go wrong the least. Keep it simple, I say.
Tom
The problems have come hand in hand with more powerful motors. Bicycles and their components are well engineered (Shimano etc), but ultimately they are purposely flimsy and light weight. They don't need to be beefy because in all but the small Ebike market, the power that they transmit comes from a human being and that is the main criteria in the design specification. With the advent of more powerful motors adding to the human effort, the bike coponents can no longer cope.
The main problem as I see it is that manufacturers appear to be engaged in a torque war, quoting ever larger and increasingly meaningless motor torque numbers. In turn, this has led to many component casualties, such as the superb Alfine gear hub biting the dust, wheels being pulled out of drop outs and disfigured broken chains. In response to the mounting casualty count, the manufacturers seem to have set up a sort of field hospital to administer first aid to the over stressed bike parts. They are desperately trying to keep the bikes alive and return them to the torque war front by fitting them with prosthetics such as humiliatingly small chain wheels, belts instead of chains and things that stop pedalling for you whilst changing gear.
I'm all for innovation, but the present situation is now officially mad. Bikes were ok in 2008, they were powerful, withstood all sorts of abuse and bashing and lasted for ages. Today, they don't do this, so have we really progressed or have we taken a wrong turn?
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