Kalkhoff Integrale 8

[RobF]

Very nice. I assume the drive belt won't need adjusting in the way a chain does?

Gates - the maker - say the belt needs to be properly installed and tensioned.

However, it doesn't lengthen in use like a chain, so shouldn't need a lot of attention once correctly set.

I've seen online reports from belt push bike users who say they don't touch the belt from one year to the next.

http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/Tech/Overview

 

[SteveRuss]

I think all the pre-allocated stock of Integrale bikes has been sold now. Therefore, it's unlikely you will get a significant discount (supply and demand). Maybe the usual £100/10% off. If you wait January/February, you would probably get a much better price (slow months, and old stock out of the way)...

You could always ask a 50 cycles customer as they frequently have a £100 off code for friends and family. I've got one for September this year although we're nearly done with September 2015

 

[John Roberts]

I know this is all down to personal prefernce

 

[John Roberts]

Sorry, I know this is all down to personal preference, but there are new Kalkhoff bikes using this motor, relatively similar specs -the other is here: http://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/en/new-1516/kalkhoff-include.html

I have a slight dodgy back - on my normal bike it can end up with a slight pain after a long ride. Would the more upright position of the Include be better for me than the lower down position on an Integrale. Don't want to look like a 'knob' as such and the Integrale certainly looks sportier in my view. But comfort plays a part!

 

[John Roberts]

http://cycle.campaign-view.com/ua/viewinbrowser?od=11287eca386726&rd=11fdffc898e9f95&sd=11fdffc898e2591&n=11699e4c048166d&mrd=11fdffc898e2585&m=1

Thank you for this by the way.

 

[trex]

...
I've seen online reports from belt push bike users who say they don't touch the belt from one year to the next.

http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/Tech/Overview

there are also reports like this one that the belt breaks.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/belt-drive-i-t-may-be-time-to-admit-defeat

The chain may stretch but that is much more predictable than a belt that may break at any time.

 

[Rohloffboy]

As much as I like the Belt concept, it is quite limiting, firstly the Rear Chain Stay, has to be able to Split, also if you want to have a play at changing the Rear Sprocket for a different size, you could have a challenge on your hands, finding a different size Belt if needed.

But if your not into tinkering, then the Belt is about the perfect solution, and is ideally suited to an IGH, the only other method to come by in recent times is Shaft Drive, but that never really caught on.

If your running an IGH, you can use a 7/8 Speed Chain, which are a lot tougher than the ultra thin 10 Speed Chains often found with Deraillure's.

 

[RobF]

there are also reports like this one that the belt breaks.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/belt-drive-i-t-may-be-time-to-admit-defeat

The chain may stretch but that is much more predictable than a belt that may break at any time.

Looks like the guy who broke two did so cross country racing, citing 'all the mud and grass trapped underneath it' for one break, and stones for another.

Those conditions wouldn't apply to a trekking bike such as this Kalkhoff, although you still wouldn't want a stone to jump onto the bottom inner surface of the belt and be mashed into it by the cogs.

I don't desperately want a belt, but I wouldn't let one put me off if the rest of the bike suited.

 

[John Roberts]

I'm 16 stone, 60, and a lifelong compost heap. But this thing means I can do the same rides I used to do
on my 4000 watt kit bike LEGALLY.

What does 4000watt refer to exactly? For instance the Kalhoff has a 250w motor and 17a battery - are you saying yours was 16 times faster/powerful?

 

[Artstu]

What does 4000watt refer to exactly? For instance the Kalhoff has a 250w motor and 17a battery - are you saying yours was 16 times faster/powerful?

I obviously can't answer your question. Just wanted to point out that all these 250w rated motors give around 600w so I hear.

 

[John Roberts]

So 'my' 250w Kalkoff could push through 600w of power if the software didn't restrict it? It's good to know. There is a USB service port on the bike, I wonder if anyone ever will be able to hack the software to change it (rather than use a dongle).

 

[RobF]

What Stu is telling you is that all ebike motors peak at more than their rated watts.

The Kalkhoff on its highest setting with you pedalling as hard as you can will likely peak at 600w or so.

 

[John Roberts]

Yeah I don't understand then! Why would something be rated at 250w but then WILL give you more if you cycle hard? Woudn't Kalkhoff state in their specs Max peak wattage 600w?

 

[RobF]

They might somewhere, I believe Bosch gave a peak power in one of their tech documents.

But given the legal position, it's probably simpler to say 250w.

Everyone knows an ebike motor will peak higher than that, depending on battery voltage and what the controller tells it to do.

 

[One_Box]

Sorry, I know this is all down to personal preference, but there are new Kalkhoff bikes using this motor, relatively similar specs -the other is here: http://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/en/new-1516/kalkhoff-include.html

I have a slight dodgy back - on my normal bike it can end up with a slight pain after a long ride. Would the more upright position of the Include be better for me than the lower down position on an Integrale. Don't want to look like a 'knob' as such and the Integrale certainly looks sportier in my view. But comfort plays a part!

Might be worth getting a professional bike set up ( about £60 ) to see if there is something wrong with your position on your normal bike especially if you are having back problems. You could then use the data to ensure you have a comfortable position on whatever e-bike you choose.
I have a 2015 Kalkoff from the comfort range and have never felt a "knob" riding it so why should you? At the end of the day it comes down to personal preference, but comfort is certainly high on my list of priorities with this type of bike.

 

[tillson]

Yeah I don't understand then! Why would something be rated at 250w but then WILL give you more if you cycle hard? Woudn't Kalkhoff state in their specs Max peak wattage 600w?

The torque sensor does what it says, senses torque and then tells the motor to deliver power proportional to the amount of torque being applied. In real terms, the harder you push on the pedals, the more power the motor delivers, up to a point. Torque isn't constant throughout one revolution of the pedal, it's probably near its highest when the pedals are horizontal and minimum when vertical. So the motor's power output will mirror this, peaking when the pedals are horizontal. It's here when the output can be 400 - 500 Watts, maybe more. Over the complete revolution, it's supposed to average out at 250 Watts, but I believe it's more than that. But, it satisfies the regulations, so legal.

The power pulsing isn't noticeable, just like it isn't when riding an unassisted bike. Everything feels very natural.

 

[JohnCade]

Yeah I don't understand then! Why would something be rated at 250w but then WILL give you more if you cycle hard? Woudn't Kalkhoff state in their specs Max peak wattage 600w?

As far as I know none of the manufactures tell you what the peak wattage of their motors is. That would be useful information and is the best measure in comparing different bikes output. But they don’t really want you to know that, and prefer to talk about torque which is fairly meaningless because you don’t know where they measure it, and because - and I don’t claim to really understand it - peak torque in electric motor terms is delivered at zero revs.

But the 250W figure is purely nominal, and if the bikes only gave you that they would not be powerful enough to help old farts like me on the steep hills that we go up faster than youngsters on unassisted bikes.

 

[John Roberts]

Just to let you know I bought one at the cycle show NEC today. Pushed for a discount, even had a friends and family £100 off code. I got £100 off! But…the cheeky blighters had put the price up by a £100 (£2995) so effectively no discount. Haven't they heard sterling is very strong vs Euro????

 

[soundwave]

all bikes are cheaper if you get them from Germany

 

[tillson]

Just to let you know I bought one at the cycle show NEC today. Pushed for a discount, even had a friends and family £100 off code. I got £100 off! But…the cheeky blighters had put the price up by a £100 (£2995) so effectively no discount. Haven't they heard sterling is very strong vs Euro????

Nice one John, I'm sure you will be pleased with the bike.

£ v Euro always makes me laugh. It's a one way ratchet. Prices, we are told, need to increase when the £ is weak, but they never come down again when the £ strengthens. They are having our trousers down, but what can we do? Just enjoy your great new bike.