Kalkhoff Agattu or Pro Connect

I am considering relegating my old but excellent Giant Lafree Twist to Spare Bike status and upgrading to a new Kalkhoff or similar Panasonic system.

 

My general riding style is "In A Hurry". I am invariably late for work so do not want to hang around. I also get enormous grief for getting home late so go even faster in this direction (shower at home/not at work). I use the assist most of the time but quickly leave it behind on the flat where I turn it off and cycle around 18-20mph. I just love to get across a set of lights from a standing start before the motorbikes;).

 

I am curious to know what the main difference is between the Agattu and the Pro Connect. I can see that the Pro Connect has a newer model hub and is somehow 3.4kg lighter. All for £300 more. Is this worth it?

 

How much better is the Alfine hub compared with the older hub? Anyone have experience of the Alfine? I have fitted a Shimano Nexus 8 hub to my Lafree and I am very pleased with it.

 

Where has the 3.4kg gone?

 

Do the bikes share the same frame?

 

Is the Pro Connect significantly faster for some reason?

 

I prefer the step through frame for convenience, but is there an advantage to a "Gents" frame?

My Pro Connect replaced my Giant Lafree Comfort step thru almost two years ago.

The choice does come down to comfort as far as I am concerned. I don't have the PC with front suspension which is unpleasant and I had to add a suspension seat post. The arms get a hammering on the poor roads. The PC is fast though and the lighter weight is better if carrying up or down escalators.

 

I'm 62 but still pass most other riders on the road and especially on hills with the PC. I can easily do 20+ mph on the flat without trying too hard.

 

The Lafree is a very comfortable bike and is still in like new condition at 4 years but slower than the PC. It is still a great bike of real quality.

 

Step Thru is more practical especially for older people but I went for the crossbar PC as I think it looks better.

 

 

 

 

 

I am considering relegating my old but excellent Giant Lafree Twist to Spare Bike status and upgrading to a new Kalkhoff or similar Panasonic system.

 

My general riding style is "In A Hurry". I am invariably late for work so do not want to hang around. I also get enormous grief for getting home late so go even faster in this direction (shower at home/not at work). I use the assist most of the time but quickly leave it behind on the flat where I turn it off and cycle around 18-20mph. I just love to get across a set of lights from a standing start before the motorbikes;).

 

I am curious to know what the main difference is between the Agattu and the Pro Connect. I can see that the Pro Connect has a newer model hub and is somehow 3.4kg lighter. All for £300 more. Is this worth it?

 

How much better is the Alfine hub compared with the older hub? Anyone have experience of the Alfine? I have fitted a Shimano Nexus 8 hub to my Lafree and I am very pleased with it.

 

Where has the 3.4kg gone?

 

Do the bikes share the same frame?

 

Is the Pro Connect significantly faster for some reason?

 

I prefer the step through frame for convenience, but is there an advantage to a "Gents" frame?

Hi Walkerman,

 

Thanks for the feedback. Does your Giant Lafree Comfort come with suspension forks?

 

I don't have any suspension on my Lafree and until recently this has not really bothered me. I do sometimes think it would be good to have some suspension though due to the atrocious state of the roads and the annoying speed humps the councils insist on putting in - why they don't just use the cushions is beyond me. I woudl be interested to know whether the Lafree with no suspension is more comfortable than the Pr Connect.

 

I have been reading Flecc's detailed review of the Agattu and it seems that this bike is faster and generally an improvement on the Lafree, so maybe is all I need. I am generally happy with the Nexus 8 and not sure what is to be gained by going for the Alfine.

 

Still a 3.6kg weight improvement is not to be ignored. How has the weight saving been achieved? is it just down to suspension?

 

On the cross bar v. step through, is it just down to appearance or is there some good technical reason for having a cross bar? I frquently get off my bike and push it across pedestrian crossings, up steps etc. so having the step through is very convenient.

Or try a New Giant they are worth a try atleast it oozes quality to me one thing that made my decision was if you ever talk to anyone that has owned a giant they will never say a bad word about them, I have a new Giant model & I can diffently recommend one

Edited April 29, 201015 yr by Scatty

Yes, my Lafree has front suspension which I really missed when going to the ProConnect.

 

Step thru is better like you say when getting on and off regularly.

Have a look at the suspension thread a while back, made interesting reading.

I'm always in a hurry and the PC suits me perfectly. I have added suspension post + gearing change, both necessary in my view depending on the roads around you. I always thought the Agattu was more for pottering so I didn't consider it. The old advice is to try both first, expensive if you made the wrong choice, I still lust after an S, next year?

Just read the suspension thread - fascinating, but much as I had expected. The thing it did not mention was the move to alumninium frames. My old (stolen) 3 speed sturmey archer with a steel frame was much more comfortable than the aluminium Lafree, even though it was similarly styled, apart from the fact it had a cross bar. Perhaps we need suspension to compensate for the less springy but fashionable aluminium frames?

 

I still do not understand why the Agattu "was more for pottering" than the pro connect. They look more or less the same to me and Flecc's review indicates that you can stiffen up the front suspension which largely removes it's drawbacks.

Edited April 29, 201015 yr by tangent

Yes, steel frames are much more comfortable than aluminium alloy ones, but I didn't mention them in my suspension article since the suspension issues are the same for both with regard to the different bike types and needs.

 

The Agattu forks are quite stiff on their softest setting anyway, something that a few have complained of. The difference from the Pro Connect is mainly that of weight, power and "feel". The Pro Connect is a bit lighter, it's motor has a slightly higher base power setting, and for many the "feel" is of a faster bike due to those and also the fork and seatpost rigidity which are more sports bike like in character.

 

The differences aren't great and their importance is probably as much about personal perception about each model as anything else.

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Thanks for the feedback Flecc. I suspected the difference would not be enormous.

After searching this site and elsewhere I can see that there are a lot more Panasonic based systems around, including the Technium Privilege at wiggle: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Technium_Privilege_Pedelec_Electric_Town_Bike/5360038313/#more

 

This looks identical to the Agattu, but is £430 cheaper! Why?

Thanks for the feedback Flecc. I suspected the difference would not be enormous.

After searching this site and elsewhere I can see that there are a lot more Panasonic based systems around, including the Technium Privilege at wiggle: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Technium_Privilege_Pedelec_Electric_Town_Bike/5360038313/#more

 

This looks identical to the Agattu, but is £430 cheaper! Why?

 

 

This came up in another thread. It is basically the older 7 speed Agattu and I guess they have been hanging around Wiggle for a while and they want to get rid of them. Good price and the only problem might be the batteries but they are pretty well protected from degradation as they go into sleep mode.

 

If you are happy enough with the step through and 7 speeds then grab youself a bargain.

The wiggle site says "Alloy city bike with Shimano Nexus 8-speed transmission". Do you think this is wrong?

 

Had not thought about the battery - I understand that Lithium batteries age even when not being used.

The specification states Nexus 8 speed and the brakes etc. all look good so these bikes really do seem a real bargain.

Yes 8 speed even more of a bargain....

 

PS I would check the specification as the picture shows the old model 7 speed Agattu. Either way round a bargain - there is an ex demo for £1119 as well. Also if it is 8 speed it is a current model so no worries about the battery.

 

 

I am confused about the specification as the 2009 Agattu was always 7 speed. Only the 2010 model is 8 speed. The Technium was released in June 2009 so odd that they were building it as the 8 speed and the Agattu as 7 speed. I suppose I am saying that you should check before you buy.

Edited April 30, 201015 yr by HarryB

The specification states Nexus 8 speed and the brakes etc. all look good so these bikes really do seem a real bargain.

 

I thought 50Cycles had the concession for these

I thought 50Cycles had the concession for these

 

 

It is not a Kalkhoff for which they have the concession it is a Technium. The same way that Derby has badge engineered the Raleigh Dovers etc...looks to be the same bike.

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/charging-post/5863-raleigh-dover.html

Wow they look decent value if you like that sort of thing.......Shame no cross bar model though.

I seem to recollect 50cycles announcing their 2009 Agattus were to be 8 speed and I think it was only the 2007/8 models that were using the older 7 speed hub.

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"The 2010 model is fitted with the Shimano's brilliant Nexus 8-speed hub and a range of built-in features that make for a smooth, comfortable ride you'll want to keep going back to. etc, etc"

If you're the sole concessionaire for Kalkhoff but the same bikes are re-badged by the factory and sold under the names Derby, Raleigh, Smith, Jones and Wesson, what is the value of the sole concession for Kalkhoff?

 

Every time the factory wants a new dealer they can just make the same bikes with a different name and appoint another sole concessionaire.

 

If I were the Kalkhoff concessionaire and found the same bikes being sold for several hundred pounds less under another name I would feel slightly cheated.

 

As a customer, I'd buy it. What's in a name?

I agree Lemmy, but it's an old practice. I remember when Austin and Morris appointed dealers both sold the Mini in competition with each other, same car, different badges.

 

And today there's the VW Passat dealers undercut by the Skoda Superb dealers, same car.

 

Many other examples of course.

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Hi Tangent, I noticed you're considering Panasonic based bikes - have you looked at the Yamaha based Gepida models too? They got a very positive review in the extraenergy.org 2009 report and the power assist is similar to Panasonic. They currently offer city / touring, cruiser and mountain bike models, using Shimano Nexus hub gears, Busch & Muller lighting, suspended seat post and forks and are so comfortable.

Hi Tom,

 

yes I did look at the Gepida models, but prefer the Panasonic as it seems to have made more market penetration in the UK, with excellent reviews. I bought a Giant electric bike 6 years ago and have not found support that great. Giant themselves refuse to communicate with customers directly and most bike shops do not really want to know or are scathing about electric bikes. I am looking for an Agattu type bike and cannot really see any advantage in the Gepida - certainly no cheaper.

It's true that the Panasonic system has more market penetration over here, presumably because it's used by more bike manufacturers. I think in Japan Yamaha are just as popular though and it's a much more mature market.

 

There are now aorund 17 Gepida resellers across the country, we've recently become one - you might have guessed - and we've got a sale on to celebrate opening. It's only for orders placed up until next Saturday, so if you did want to check out Gepida now would be an opportune time. Significant savings available for a very short time only.

 

In the meantime I'd recommend downloading the extraenergy.org 2009 report to browse the reviews

Hi Tom,

and most bike shops do not really want to know or are scathing about electric bikes..

 

I had some of that. I took my Kalkhoff in to my LBS get the rear cog changed (I decided against it in the end).

 

While there, I learned that kalkhoff bikes were rubbish. That there was no point to electric bikes. That mudguards were for wimps. Oh yes, and nobody used hub gears because they were heavy and inefficient compared to 'proper' derailleur gears.

 

Always good to be advised by experts

A bike shop local to us said that e-bikes are for "wrinklies and lazy people" - I don't think they get it yet!