justin beba.... or just out of beba?

[Wisper Bikes]

All good Col, I am pleased you are happier.

Sometimes it's better just to get the jobs done between a few of us, it's not we want to keep others out. Quite the contrary!

Delighted you will be at the next meeting, we have a lot to discuss!

All the best, David

 

[Kudoscycles]

David,are you skipping yet? Good luck with the hip-hop!!!!! Joking apart I hope you repair soon from your op.
What is BEBA'S view on the unlimited weight limits. I think the DfT are looking from the wrong direction,the document seems to assume that say an 80 kg e-scooter had only 250 watt of power it would be self policing,ie the bike would barely move itself,so nobody would sell one or want one.
However if that same bike had an 800 watt motor with a 200 watt sticker it would be a lethal machine on promenades and/or cycle tracks but the police would be forced to accept its illegality without any means of accurately determining the power of the motor.
Google 'e-scooter'or 'e-moped' and you come up with many motorbikes that the sellers claim are bicycle legal,we all know this cannot be so,but the police and trading standards seem weak when trying to stop their sales as bicycles....they all claim ride by 14 year olds,no tax,no insurance,no helmet,no registration,one even claims that you cannot be breathalysed riding one,suggesting that riding it is drunk is ok! Has BEBA tried to get the DfT to act against these machines?
I like these e-mopeds but they should be registered as motor vehicles a la mopeds,the bike made by Zhejiang Nicom is a lovely moped,800 watts,about 60 KGs weight,30 mph speed. They are cheaper than most S class bikes and would appear to offer so much more,they would be ideal for those with mobility problems,including a throttle-I think we should embrace these mopeds as part of the pedelecs umbrella,as long as they are supplied legally and on-road use only.
I am supportive of throttles,although the dominance of the German market will make these difficult to provide.
I am against the S class,it seems to me providing an on-road only class is a pointless bike,they cannot be used as bicycles,ie with their freedom of usage but don't offer the power and adaptability of e-mopeds.However current illegal S class usage in the UK shows that such users don't really care about their illegal usage so they probably will continue to use them to ride down promenades and cycle tracks,that may be a problem for us all if there was an accident and we were all 'tarred with the same brush',it is especially critical whilst the DfT is considering the future of e-biking.
Good luck.
Regards
KudosDave

 

[EddiePJ]

Speaking of Beba, I'd love an explanation of this.

My van insurance policy renewal arrived today. The van is insured fully comp, £250.00 excess, van value 12.5K, renewal cost £232.78

This thread prompted me to look at the Beba website, and insurance caught my eye. Bike value as near to as is possible on the scale 3.4k Policy cost £244.55

I assume that you are having a laugh, right?

The bike is never left unattended, is kept in a secure and locked building, has three different high rated lock systems securing it and also a ground anchor. The van is left anywhere and everywhere, has no alarm system or security devices fitted, and sits on a driveway after hours.

 

[shemozzle999]

I wonder if BEBA can ask the DfT if hand cranked tricycles are exempt from type approval - a question posed in another thread.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi David, recovering well from hip op thanks! Can't wait to get back on my bike.

All the points you make have merit. It's a shame you are not a BEBA member, then you could be more a part of this whole process. We would welcome you!

A couple of points.

Re S class Pedelecs, like them or not they are coming. They account for 80% of the Riese Muller sales in Holland and we cannot get them on sale here fast enough. They have a good press in the countries where they are available and offer a very serious alternative to the moped. Have you ever ridden one?

We intend to push through legislation allowing them to be used in the UK ASAP. People are going to buy them anyway, with the correct legislation in place hopefully excessive use of power will be more easy to control and third party insurance will be mandatory.

We argued against abandoning the maximum weights for EAPCs for the reasons you mention but were outvoted. It was felt manufacturers would try and make vehicles as light as possible anyway. I personally argued to reduce the max weight to 30kg, we will remake our points again now.

There is still a danger of the possibility of the throttle being outlawed, which we strongly believe is a huge error. So anyone who wants to keep the throttle should make their views known. In our opinion it makes cycling more inclusive for those who find a full rotation of the pedals tricky.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Eddie, the BEBA insurance is not set by BEBA. We simply researched the market, found what we considered to be the best value package available and in turn made it available to everyone, not only BEBA members.

I agree bike insurance is high but the insurance companies set the premiums according to risk. Nothing we can do about that I am afraid!

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Shemozzle, I don't see why they shouldn't be, what makes you feel they are not included?

All the best, David

 

[shemozzle999]

Hi Shemozzle, I don't see why they shouldn't be, what makes you feel they are not included?

All the best, David

Hi David,

I agree that the should be included, but Pedal implies foot operated.

It would be nice to have DfT confirmation that the new EU regulations would not exclude them.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi David,

I agree that the should be included, but Pedal implies foot operated.

It would be nice to have DfT confirmation that the new EU regulations would not exclude them.

I will ask for clarification for you.

All the best, David

 

[shemozzle999]

I will ask for clarification for you.

All the best, David

Thanks.

Don't forget to get your leg lengths checked that they are equal after some recover time - apparently a tolerance of +/- 1/2" is acceptable as my sister has been recently told.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks.

Don't forget to get your leg lengths checked that they are equal after some recover time - apparently a tolerance of +/- 1/2" is acceptable as my sister has been recently told.

Thanks! I had already noticed a difference, I thought it was something to do with bedding in to the new socket, I would say these is currently 1" difference!

I will check it out today.

All the best, David

 

[Wicky]

Hi Eddie, the BEBA insurance is not set by BEBA. We simply researched the market, found what we considered to be the best value package available and in turn made it available to everyone, not only BEBA members.

I agree bike insurance is high but the insurance companies set the premiums according to risk. Nothing we can do about that I am afraid!

All the best, David

The premium I get back for my KTM is much the same as it costs me to insure my 150mph 100bhp 1000cc Honda Firestorm fully comp!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The premium I get back for my KTM is much the same as it costs me to insure my 150mph 100bhp 1000cc Honda Firestorm fully comp!

Crazy isn't it! Same with my BMW X5!

The problem is the insurers have very little knowledge of the risk on electric bikes. Premiums will no doubt stay high until underwriters have more data and the market becomes bigger and more competitive.

For now it's the best we can do, at least it offers people a chance to get insurance that works.

All the best, David

 

[RobF]

Thanks! I had already noticed a difference, I thought it was something to do with bedding in to the new socket, I would say these is currently 1" difference!

I believe that in the months before the operation you use the non-knackered hip differently.

That one tends to straighten out a bit in the months following the operation.

So if the surgeon set you dead equal in the operating theatre, you would be lopsided after a few months.

When I had my hip done I woke up with unequal leg lengths.

Things improved quite a bit, although one leg does still feel shorter than the other.

However, things are complicated in my case by the other hip which is now on the way out.

That one will probably have to be done next year, so I'm hoping when all is done and settled, I will be on the level.

 

[Jimod]

There is still a danger of the possibility of the throttle being outlawed, which we strongly believe is a huge error. So anyone who wants to keep the throttle should make their views known. In our opinion it makes cycling more inclusive for those who find a full rotation of the pedals tricky.

All the best, David

My wife has a Woosh Santana CD. It has a throttle which she uses. She can't pedal a bike at all, so without the throttle she couldn't use a bike.

She isn't unique, there will be others in that situation. She can use the ebike with throttle to come out with my grandson and me.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Hi David, recovering well from hip op thanks! Can't wait to get back on my bike.

All the points you make have merit. It's a shame you are not a BEBA member, then you could be more a part of this whole process. We would welcome you!

A couple of points.

Re S class Pedelecs, like them or not they are coming. They account for 80% of the Riese Muller sales in Holland and we cannot get them on sale here fast enough. They have a good press in the countries where they are available and offer a very serious alternative to the moped. Have you ever ridden one?

We intend to push through legislation allowing them to be used in the UK ASAP. People are going to buy them anyway, with the correct legislation in place hopefully excessive use of power will be more easy to control and third party insurance will be mandatory.

We argued against abandoning the maximum weights for EAPCs for the reasons you mention but were outvoted. It was felt manufacturers would try and make vehicles as light as possible anyway. I personally argued to reduce the max weight to 30kg, we will remake our points again now.

There is still a danger of the possibility of the throttle being outlawed, which we strongly believe is a huge error. So anyone who wants to keep the throttle should make their views known. In our opinion it makes cycling more inclusive for those who find a full rotation of the pedals tricky.

All the best, David

David,
With regard to S class bikes I will go with the flow...I assume they will be on road use only,like in Germany? It just seems crazy to buy a bicycle which you cannot legally use like other bicycles.
I have ridden one,they are fast but actually not that much faster than the current Panasonic hub drive bikes and all the BPM motored bikes. The freedom to go to 28 mph is seen by some as being an advantage but so many of the 250 watt bikes are now de restricted that the advantage is less.
But I will make and sell S class if they become legal,KTM already have S class bikes and the Chinese will I am sure make their versions.
Am currently exhibiting at the classic car show,NEC,I wanted to take some ebikes but the stand is full.
Regards
Dave

 

[EddiePJ]

David,
With regard to S class bikes I will go with the flow...I assume they will be on road use only,

I just hope that the term "road use" doesn't extend to bridleways. If they are permitted on public bridleways, it will spell the end of the organised rides that I so enjoy, and that others are now also starting to take part in, and that I have been trying so hard to promote.
E-mtb's are already treading along very fine tight rope, I have it on good authority that the organisers of these events, will simply ban the use of e-mtb's altogether. That will be a big nail in the coffin in respect of encouraging others to buy and use them. Organised events are a good advertising platform for both the practical and safe use of these bikes, and it would make for sad day, when someone says no more.

 

[shemozzle999]

I can see how the new regulations will permit type approving and registering of these vehicles because I don't think there is a way to stop it, but whether they will be allowed on the roads will boil down to how much it will cost the government to introduce this new class of vehicle onto the roads of the UK.

I envisage atleast the need of a very expensive and lengthy advertising campaign prior to introduction to make existing road users aware of the new class and to meet the DfT's responsibility to maintain the safety of all road users and pedestrians.

It certainly won't be a Zero Cost proposal unlike the the EPAC modifications, which are.

 

[Wicky]

If specific s-class law comes into force in the future, will existing s-class bikes 'on the road' get a free pass and what about less obvious home build kits? As discussed ad infinutm how wil it be enforced? - as visually the difference between a 250w and 350w pedelec bicycle would be hard to spot - considering the police has gone over to speed / average speed cameras as a means on over 30+mph speed management/revenue Skinner boxes.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I believe that in the months before the operation you use the non-knackered hip differently.

That one tends to straighten out a bit in the months following the operation.

So if the surgeon set you dead equal in the operating theatre, you would be lopsided after a few months.

When I had my hip done I woke up with unequal leg lengths.

Things improved quite a bit, although one leg does still feel shorter than the other.

However, things are complicated in my case by the other hip which is now on the way out.

That one will probably have to be done next year, so I'm hoping when all is done and settled, I will be on the level.

Thanks Rob!

I was getting a bit worried, however if I stand on my new hip I am now a Goliath 5'7" again!!

All the best

David