Just what do I want from an electric cycle?

[oldun]

I have not yet obtained and electric cycle but here is what I am looking for-
I live in a hilly area, our home is on a steep hill and the road to our little town also has long steepish climbs and is 4 miles away. I recently tried a 10 year old Heinzman which was controlled by a twistgrip, it required more effort from myself to get up the hill than I was capable of giving ( heart attack risk here) I then tested a Raleigh, the motor of which only works when pedal input from the rider was available, for my needs a dead loss as one could not walk with this and let the motor tickover, thus helping the hillclimb. my 3rd test was with what I understand to be a Chinese copy of a Currie but missing the control box so an on / off switch on the handlebars took its place, I was not expecting a lot from this tiny frail but neat looking little bike but in all honesty it performed well and shown great promise. I have done a deal with its owner and should have it soon. Its not a comfortable cycle so I am looking at perhaps fitting the motor to my mountain bike.

My other option​

I have a good mountain bike and would sooner adapt it. so will look eagerly at older postings as to what can be done.I would like a reasonably powerfull motor with grunt not speed for hills. I am not fussy about legality and suspect a faster motor may equal more grunt / torque? Are there any intsructions for making a speed control set up anywhere on the forum? would a simple micro switch on the handlebars operating a relay in the battery container work without trouble.
Thanks for taking the time to read this rather long letter I have a lot more to ask.
Oldun​

 

[emotivepete]

I shouldn't base the performance of the current Heinzmann system on a 10 year old version. Without knowing the motor type it is impossible to know its hill climbing capability but it would have undoubtedly been 24V.

Most current Heinzmann kits are 36V and hill climbers are available - rated at 15% nominally.

Control is still via throttle but this is available in either e-bike or pedelec applications. The throttle controls the amount of motor assist, the pedal sensor (on the pedelec) determining whether motor assist is enabled or not. On the e-bike you just twist and go from a standing start. Even on the pedelec the controller includes start assist which helps the rider get going (nominally upto 3.5mph). Also, if the hill becomes too much for bike and rider combined the start assist allows the bike and whatever shopping, golf clubs etc to be powered up it, simply by walking the bike and twisting the throttle.

With the Heinzmann system speed and torque are inversely related in general (special motor windings aside). Fast motors are available but achieve speed at the expense of hill climbing ability. The 15% capability mentioned above can be achieved in a 15mph motor (26" rims).

Regards

Pete

 

[oldun]

Pete, Thanks for your prompt reply, you have cleard up several questions that I was going to ask. As I mentioned in my 1st letter speed is not what I want after all were talking pushbikes and stopping is important.
As I see it now I can see myself taking my electric bike in my van to areas I want to explore quietly and in more detail.
If I can do it I will post a picture of what is soon to be my first electric cycle but do not hold your breath. Blimey I think its worked on the preview

I was to quick praising myself it didnt work
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/proffs/IMG_4257.jpg

 

[flecc]

The photo file is probably too large for system to accept and display.

I think you'll be very disappointed if you transfer that motor to your mountain bike. The larger wheel on the mountain bike will immediately gear it up, so you'll get what you don't want, more speed and less hill climb ability.

Today's Heinzmann that Pete recommends is very much more capable in that respect.

Another worth considering is the eZee Quando, it's hill climb abilities being legendary. It's single speed but scarcely has to be pedalled, climbing the majority of hills unaided, and when assistance is needed, just the slightest of effort is required. It also folds to go easily into your car. Two links on it:

Cyclepoint

Performance
.

 

[oldun]

Flecc Thanks for your input, just where do you find all this info, idealyIwould like to read it from a magazine like What Digital Camera or Electric Cycle Monthly only I do not think there is one.
By the way that little bike Im getting has a chain driven gearbox of sorts and I have access to an engineering factory who would no doubt be able to alter the gear or sprocket , however I now feel I should look for different ways to quench my craving. perhaps a complete bike would be the beter wayto go.
going to look at your links now, Thanks again. Oldun

By the way loved the Quando 2 but not its gut wrenching price, the trailor road test was very well done as well

 

[Andy Day]

Hi Oldun, I have similar ticker problems, and live in Hemel Hempstead, at the top of a hill, shops etc at the bottom!

How steep are your hills, and can you give some assistance via pedals? I have a feeling if your area is very hilly and you can't give at least as much pedal assistance as it takes to pedal into a fair headwind on the level you won't find a legal! solution. My experience is to get a good bit of help on hills you need 300 - 350 watts, which is over the top as far as Plod is concerned.

How Plod would know however eludes me! But to cut to the chase if you want more than the legally allowed power you must research the machine you buy carefully, and be aware that you don't get it all ways, more power = less distance.

Good luck with it.

 

[flecc]

By the way loved the Quando 2 but not its gut wrenching price, the trailor road test was very well done as well

Yes, the price is a bit scary now, it was £745 when I bought mine.

You can get quite a lot of information from the A to B magazine and their website reports in brief on e-bikes.

The ExtraEnergy organisation has also done some testing, though their reports do have some limitations, inadequate hill climb testing for example.
.

 

[keithhazel]

Yes, the price is a bit scary now, it was £745 when I bought mine.
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£845 when i got mine on january 2nd this year...petrol rise seems to effect everything

 

[flecc]

My experience is to get a good bit of help on hills you need 300 - 350 watts, which is over the top as far as Plod is concerned.

Most e-bikes give a peak of 400 watts or more and are perfectly legal, the peak and the legal rating being rather different things. The legal Quando II that I mentioned has a peak power of 576 watts gross, about 480 watts net at the wheel, and that's why it climbs so well.

Add on average e-bike rider output of around 150 to 200 watts on hills and the total can handle some very steep hills. The fitter rider with a 300 watt ability can handle just about anything.

As you say though, high power tends to lower range, and the Quando on power only just about scrapes to 15 miles on it's large battery.
.

 

[oldun]

Brilliant stuff everyone, Ive learnt more via these few letters than I have been able o glean any where else Thank you.
to retain / regain some fittness / staminer I use a treadmill twice a week and I think a bike that is dead as far as motor input is concerned would suit my needs, pedal until it begins to hurt then switch on the motor seems the way I need to go. I will continue my research, if any of you have any other thoughts please let me know. Glad I found this site. Oldun.

 

[MaryinScotland]

pedal until it begins to hurt then switch on the motor seems the way I need to go.

That's the way I like to ride. I had an Urban Mover which is a reasonably-priced lightweight bike, but I gave up on it because when you pedal, the motor is full-on whether you want it or not. You can get a torque sensor that adjusts the motor output to your effort, but it's still the bike deciding how much power to give you. So I've just ordered a Heinzmann Estelle Comfort (with an "ouch!" price-tag ) because the power is fully throttle-controlled (whether e-bike or pedelec) and you decide how much help to ask for.

I was influenced by having used a Heinzmann motor before, an add-on kit on a less-than-ideal bike. I'm hoping that buying the complete bike will keep all the advantages and remove the disadvantages of my previous Heinzmann-Dawes. Report to follow in due course,

Mary

 

[oldun]

Mary I would be very interested in your views on this bike, I have to say that I would like a complete package myself but as Im very much on the very bottom of a steep learning curve I will try my little whatever it is first, it will have to be transported to where I want to ride it but at least it will give me some idea about what I need, I feel I must have control over it and not the other way around. Oldun

 

[MaryinScotland]

Hi Oldun,

The Estelle Comfort I ordered has the standard motor, not the special hill-climbing option, which you might need for your local terrain. Oxford isn't too hilly. My regular commute has one half-mile hill which defeats me, but I'd say at least a third of cyclists manage to ride up it, so it's not mountainous, and the standard motor should deal with it with no problem.

I did consider the hill-climber motor option, "just in case" I ever wanted it. However... it makes slightly more noise, having metal gears. Not too intrusive, but the nylon-geared standard motor produces a soft whine, the metal-geared one more of a buzz. (EmotivePete kindly demonstrated this for me at the Nottingham bike event last Monday.) More importantly to me, the hill-climber draws more current (can't get something for nothing) so my guess is you'd need the bigger-capacity battery to do it justice. That would add a chunk to the cost, and more than a kilo to the all-up weight, so I decided against it.

Low bike weight is very important to me as I have to carry it upstairs to my second-floor flat. 25 kg is my top limit, which rules out some good bikes like the Gazelles. If your main need is hill-climbing, that gives different priorities. Unfortunately, the drive-through-the-gears bikes are the best hill climbers, but necessarily they can't work if you want to walk with the motor pulling the bike.

Anyway, try the bike you have now. You'll find it an improvement on being unpowered, and it'll give you more idea of what should ultimately be your "best" bike.

Mary

 

[oldun]

Thanks Mary, Th bike I have has yet to turn up at our house and when it does I have to rig up a form of control not a big problem for me. Where do you find out about the events like Prestiegne and Notts My bike is in Nottingham right now but I dont think the owner new of the event you mentioned.

 

[pwylie]

Mary, very interested in you comments and your purchase.

I ordered the Heinzmann retrofit kit with the strongest engine available from Kinetics in Glasgow. My order was made some three weeks ago & I am still waiting for delivery.

I was not aware at the time I ordered how noisy it might be but I guess I'll cope. The only review of the system I have seen was of an older version. Based on your research, how do the new set ups compare to what you had below?

 

[MaryinScotland]

Hi Oldun,

I found out about the Nottingham event from EmotivePete's post in this thread:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/1963-heinzmann-parts.html
He also mentions another event in York in June, and I think there's a London bike show later in the year. Presteigne has run for a few years now, and gets discussed well in advance on this forum. The Nottingham show was a general cycling event, but electrics were there in the shape of Heinzmann, Gazelle and Izip.

EmotivePete is from Emotive Control Systems, the UK distributor of the Heinzmann range. You'll find a link to their website on the thread I linked to.


Pwylie, I understand that 3-4 weeks is normal for Heinzmann bikes, which are built to order. I don't know about retrofit kits - it may depend on whether the one you wanted was on the shelf, or waiting the next production run. If you look on the Heinzmann website here: Estelle – Electrobikes – Bicycles with Electric Motor – Auxiliary Drive – Power Assist Drive you'll find that they have an awful lot of varieties. Ben at Kinetics is knowledgeable and has dealt with Heinzmann for years, so I'm sure he would have offered you good advice.

The Heinzmann kit I bought in 2003 (from Kinetics) was road-legal, 200W continuous power, but it was a 24 volt system. The current ones, including mine, are 36 volt, so may have a bit more "oomph". I'll find out in due course. I was aware from my previous research that the basic motor has nylon gears for quietness, while the higher-powered ones have metal gears for strength, and I did meet someone with a 500W Heinzmann, so I knew of the "buzz" from it. It doesn't sound like a motorbike or anything like that, but it's not silent. The other big change (new this year) is that they've gone over to Li-Ion batteries, when it used to be NiCad or NiMH. That saves weight.

Can't add much more until I get the bike!

Mary

 

[emotivepete]

Where do you find out about the events like Prestiegne and Notts

All the events attended by us (Heinzmann bikes and retrofit kits) should be listed on our "News and Events" page on the website (Heinzmann DC Motors UK distributor- estelle electrobikes powered by Heinzmann). As mentioned, our next event is York Cycle Show, 21-22 June.

Apart from that, several of our retailers carry demo bikes so you may wish to check with them. The "list of retailers" section on our website shows who has demo bikes currently.

 

[keithhazel]

dont hurt

pedal until it begins to hurt then switch on the motor seems the way I need to go. I will continue my research, if any of you have any other thoughts please let me know. Glad I found this site. Oldun.

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nooooooooooooooooo dont pedal till it hurts, electric assistance is just that, assistance to make it easier......pedal till it hurts is sooooooooo wrong....dont do anything till it hurts..unless you into s&m i guess..

 

[JohnInStockie]

www.emotivecontrolsystems.co.uk)

Is this correct, I get server not found.

 

[MaryinScotland]

Is this correct, I get server not found.

John, try deleting that extra bracket at the end of the link.