It Might Be Legal? But Is It Ethical?

[simonbarnett]

What do you do?

I sympathise with the frustration of those who've been waiting longer, especially if you've not heard much or been given false hopes. Mine was ordered 23 January and I was told February- so first week in March isn't tragic, if it isn't delayed again.

Question is what alternative there is? The reviews are so good that this is probably the best pedelec without spending a lot more- that's why we ordered one! And 50Cycles seem to have a UK monopoly and can't be enjoying this customer frustration- whether they have enough leverage over Kalkhoff is a different question.

What equal or better alternative is suitable and available?

 

[jimmyengland1000]

I e-mailed Kalkhoff directly.. in English and in German... to ask what the situation is re the diamond frame Agattu. I did not receive a reply. Nor did Tim at 50Cycles return my call again.

If I don't get a call on Monday, I'll be cancelling my order. No bike in the world is worth tolerating this nonsense.

 

[Cyclezee]

I have been in communication with Scott via PM's. After a little release of steam regarding this thread, I'm sure he won't mind me quoting his last message.
"I am actually visiting Germany this week to visit Derby Cycle and will report back on the Forum when I get back."
So why don't we all chill for a week and see what comes of Scott's visit.

John

 

[mk1]

I always thought this forum was about Pedelecs. Maybe it should be renamed:
'WHINGING GITS R US'

 

[flecc]

I always thought this forum was about Pedelecs. Maybe it should be renamed:
'WHINGING GITS R US'

I agree. Several times lately I've logged and logged straight back out when seeing the persistence of these consumerist subjects.
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[Cyclezee]

I always thought this forum was about Pedelecs. Maybe it should be renamed:
'WHINGING GITS R US'

Fair comment mk1. Perhaps the whinging should be posted in the Charging Post Section in future.

John

 

[Critical Mass]

Fair comment mk1. Perhaps the whinging should be posted in the Charging Post Section in future.

I disagree John. This is not fair comment at all. I consider being dismissed as a whinging git to be extremely insulting.

There is no smily to indicated 'i'm entirely serious'. Perhaps there should be.

 

[Cyclezee]

You are perfectly entitled to disagree Critcal Mass as everyone should be in a free society. I'm all for free speech and differing opinions, provided they are not libellous or slanderous, say what you feel.


John

 

[flecc]

I disagree John. This is not fair comment at all. I consider being dismissed as a whinging git to be extremely insulting.

There is no smily to indicated 'i'm entirely serious'. Perhaps there should be.

I also don't think such posts should be relegated, nor is my post in support of MK1 a criticism of individuals who have the absolute right to express themselves fairly.

It was a comment on the general drift of the forum towards this rather unpleasant and offputting subject.

We have a huge number of visitors to this site, but only a tiny proportion join. Since they must have been interested in this subject to have visited, most must find the site not to their liking. These consumer threads could well be a big contributor to that, as probably will be the very technical threads.
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[Footie]

.... Since they must have been interested in this subject to have visited, most must find the site not to their liking. These consumer threads could well be a big contributor to that, as probably will be the very technical threads ....

I for one say keep up the technical threads. Yes, they can get a bit involved sometimes and mere mortals such as myself click off bemused and with a headache. But many of the post are of real interest to new ebikers (well I find them interesting). That's one of the best parts of the forum.
The consumer threads - well, lets just say I tolerate them as long as they stay in the background
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It might be legal, but is it ethical to sell a product which is yet to be manufactured, accept payment for it, keep telling customers any day now it will be available without really knowing when
What do you think?

In response to the original post.
I suppose, if it gets to the point where your no longer prepared to except the suppliers explanations for the delay’s, you can always demand your money back and shop else where.
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[flecc]

I too support the technical threads, and have started some of them. I was just making the observation of their probable effect, based on the aversion to technology of the great majority of the population.
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[jimmyengland1000]

I always thought this forum was about Pedelecs. Maybe it should be renamed:
'WHINGING GITS R US'

I don't quite understand this post. What is this person referring to? If it's the Agattu business, one assumes they haven't coughed up a load of dosh for a non-arriving bike? Either way, I thought the tone of the message to be inappropriate and vaguely insulting. Don't bother reading the posts or responding if that's how you feel, sunbeam.

 

[jimmyengland1000]

I always thought this forum was about Pedelecs. Maybe it should be renamed:
'WHINGING GITS R US'

Joined on the 18 January 2008.... posting things like this by 10 Feb.

 

[flecc]

Joined on the 18 January 2008.... posting things like this by 10 Feb.

Shows what a friendly relaxing forum this is!

I think MK1 is entitled to his opinion, whether on day one or years later.

This thread really has been extended ad nauseum now. We got the gist at the outset, but now surely this is a matter between buyers and supplier. Either wring a result out of the supplier or cancel the order.

Alternatively, prospective buyers could treat themselves to a Eurostar trip, since they carry bikes too.
.

 

[keithhazel]

I too support the technical threads, and have started some of them. I was just making the observation of their probable effect, based on the aversion to technology of the great majority of the population.
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you are right Flecc,some of these technical threads are a right bire, head ache, and a waste of space...UNLESS its the information you need, yes i read all anyhow and most i turn straight off from as right over my head, but the times i need it its spot on and very gratefully accepted, everyone has the on off button too..so keep on with these highly technical threads please....

also you are right about continual unpleasant threads being off putting to prospective new members as its at times as bitchy as the playground at school, yes i have the on off switch so i dont have to read but to a new person looking in they will switch off and never come back,in the long run an unpleasant thread does no one any good and coming back to read new "posts" loses its fun, i dont want to only tune in when i have a problem, i love light hearted banter and even sarcasm, just not unpleasantness...we want the forum to grow with loads of new members so lets not put off any new ones, "what goes around comes around"....

 

[Ian]

It might be legal but it's getting tedious

'nuff said.

PS. We need a "yawn" smiley

 

[Critical Mass]

'nuff said.

PS. We need a "yawn" smiley

Ian, you're a senior member - so you must have been around for a long time. Can you recall the last time you made a post like the one above?

I am curious to know why you and mk1, and flecc even - are so keen to terminate this thread. I find many of the threads on this forum to be extremely dull or downright incomprehensible. But it would never occur to me to try to bring such threads to a close, by ridicule or any other method.

I note that a business man has just made a sales pitch to the forum - before he pops off on his holidays. Obviously this forum regards such things to be acceptable. But complaints about ebike businesses would seem to be unacceptable, because they are 'consumerist' whatever that means, and because new members might find them unpleasant and offputting.

I think that the members and administrators here should have a long hard think about how this forum is run

Regards

Des

 

[keithhazel]

I think that the members and administrators here should have a long hard think about how this forum is run

Regards

Des[/QUOTE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

i think they doing a fine job,its when people start telling them how to run "their" forum that has gone along real good that a problem emerges, that and snipping and snipeing.....maybe they should be a "botany bay" posting area for all the ones who like to excessively moan and sour the happy mood of the normal forum......

 

[flecc]

I am curious to know why you and mk1, and flecc even - are so keen to terminate this thread. I find many of the threads on this forum to be extremely dull or downright incomprehensible. But it would never occur to me to try to bring such threads to a close, by ridicule or any other method.

When threads like this overstay their welcome, they become repetitive, tempers start fraying and unfortunate responses are made. That's what damages forums more than anything else.

As I've indicated, the subject has been covered and we understand what is being said, so there's no need for this persistent continuance which achieves nothing. No censorship is being asked for or intended, but if those complaining acted and then updated us with the action they've taken, that is far more constructive. JimmyEngland1000 has done that and advised accordingly in a separate thread, far more useful and informative than this tedious multi-page moan.

Alternatively, if they wish to wait for their ordered bike, please just wait and not keep reposting the same complaints, once is enough.

As for that businessman, they are regularly firmly advised about their conduct in here each time they offend, both by members and by the administrator, so there's little wrong with the way this site is run. Anyone is free to set up an alternative site should they not be satisfied with this one.
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[stokepa31]

On the issue of consumerist threads, I myself have been guilty of this regarding the derestriction of the new torq. Personally I feel quite within my rights to make an obsevation that a supplier website was carrying misleading information that was pertinent to those who may be considering a purchase based on a given spec (and to vent my own disappointment in a sensible manner).

With that in mind, why should'nt potential members / buyers see both technical type posts and consumerist / issues type posts.

I doubt very much whether the consumerist or technical posts put off potential members from joining. Its just a fact that some people are lurkers doing research and others engage more and like to get involved.

Suppliers will never get it right all the time and this will always disappoint folk. Its how they deal with it that matters most and it would seem some on here have been kept well informed and others not. Thats not an issue for me to comment on. Its an issue for the supplier because he will suffer the consequences in his botom line.

I think the point here is that we all want to see more people adopting our mode of transport and the better informed they are in making thier choice the better. When I found this forum it was a godsend. I did all my research on here learning from the mistakes some had made and drawing on the good experiences of others. It's nice to be among like minded people with a passion. I have received so much help from others on all aspects of my new bike and its teething problems and for that I am extremely grateful.

And as an eastern gentleman of portly proportions with a love of the lotus once said - Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.

nuf said!

Sorry Flecc - I did'nt see your last post before I hit send. oops!