It Might Be Legal? But Is It Ethical?

It might be legal, but is it ethical to sell a product which is yet to be manufactured, accept payment for it, keep telling customers any day now it will be available without really knowing when:confused:

What do you think?

 

 

John

would anyone really buy a product which has not been manufactured yet ?....i supose some do when its made to order like special cars for instance...

John- it's both legal and ethical. I assume you're champing at the bit for your diamond Kalkhoff. 50 Cycles were clear I could have a refund if I preferred (I didn't) so I think that solves the ethical bit- doesn't make it any less frustrating though. I recollect that patience is a virtue.

Hmm, seems I might be out of order with this post:o But the web page should be ammended to say something like 'out of stock' rather than 'in stock very soon' .

I'm afraid patience is not my strong point, when I have paid for something, I don't like waiting. At least I beat the price rise.

 

John

John,

 

I think Scott might be tempted to insist you take up his offer of a refund, for a quiet life!

 

Let's face it, if the bikes were to take several more months to materialise, you would probably get even more impatient!

 

Frank

Frank, I don't want a refund, I just want the bike. I was told they would be here the 1st week in March and I can live with that.

If Scott wanted a quiet life, he shouldn't have gone into business. I would imagine I am the least of 50cycles problems.

 

I work for the NHS which is a pretty thankless task these days, constant criticism, some justified a lot of it not.

Targets to meet and penalties if they are not. Goal posts moving on a daily basis.

Then there are ungrateful, abussive, ignorant and occasionally violent "customers" are what we have to deal with on a daily basis. Thankfully they are in a minority and we just have to take it on the chin, sometimes literally, and come back smiling.

 

'Ezee' life, I don't think so:rolleyes:

 

John

Hmm, seems I might be out of order with this post:o But the web page should be ammended to say something like 'out of stock' rather than 'in stock very soon' .

I'm afraid patience is not my strong point, when I have paid for something, I don't like waiting. At least I beat the price rise.

 

I don't think there is any reason to be embarrassed by your question John. You are entitled to draw attention to a business treating customers badly.

 

The fact that 50cc tell the fish on their lines that they have the right to cancel their orders and get a full refund (how generous!) does not make their behaviour any less 'tacky'. (people don't actually need permission to cancel their orders and get a refund - there are laws..)

 

The salient question is should internet companies pretend that items are in stock or 'almost' in stock when they have no idea when, if ever, they will arrive.

 

Is anyone still waiting for a NiMH battery?

 

Des

I don't think there is any reason to be embarrassed by your question John. You are entitled to draw attention to a business treating customers badly.

 

The fact that 50cc tell the fish on their lines that they have the right to cancel their orders and get a full refund (how generous!) does not make their behaviour any less 'tacky'. (people don't actually need permission to cancel their orders and get a refund - there are laws..)

 

The salient question is should internet companies pretend that items are in stock or 'almost' in stock when they have no idea when, if ever, they will arrive.

 

Is anyone still waiting for a NiMH battery?

 

Des

Thanks for that Des, I was beginning to think I had farted in a 'Gentleman's Club'

 

John

Is anyone still waiting for a NiMH battery?

 

Des

 

Yes

 

James

how 50 cycles run their business and website is their concern but you have to be surprised that they are still offering inaccurate/misleading information on their web pages on a regular basis. do they rush to capture market share?

are they caught out by rapidly changing specs? is their relationship with their suppliers not of a high enough standard communication wise.

 

essentially the products appear to be up there with the very best on offer but to get the agattu weight wrong, be unclear/misleading about product availability/delivery times(agattu diamond/pro connect) be unclear about the new torq speed capability, and the ongoing ezee lithium battery saga etc creates a series of minor frustrations amongst certain customers.

essentially the products appear to be up there with the very best on offer but to get the agattu weight wrong, be unclear/misleading about product availability/delivery times(agattu diamond/pro connect) be unclear about the new torq speed capability, and the ongoing ezee lithium battery saga etc creates a series of minor frustrations amongst certain customers.

 

And 'minor frustrations amongst certain customers'

essentially means

'trivial complaints by awkward customers'?

 

Yes? No?

 

Des

reading your first posting on this thread and then your second on it Des, i cant make my mind up which side of the fence you are on, first it appears you are saying some companies are a little naughty and then the second post you seem to be saying its just a few "certain" customers who are needlessly complaining....

 

secondly i would say i dont think you would be making your second point if you was one of the "awkward" customers who are desperatly wanting to get their hands on something they originally had a target date and then thats come and gone and none the wiser....so although i have no complaints myself i do sympathise with the "awkward" few who seem to have reasonable claims to complain....but only my opinion nothing personal Des...

that would be a no des. forums are places to express a range of opinions. i think quoting another members post and then reinterpretating to suggest they meant something else entirely is not within the spirit of this forum.my post actually indicates quite clearly that i feel 50 cycles have misled customers via their website.

that would be a no des. forums are places to express a range of opinions. i think quoting another members post and then reinterpretating to suggest they meant something else entirely is not within the spirit of this forum.my post actually indicates quite clearly that i feel 50 cycles have misled customers via their website.

 

Sorry Joe. Obviously I misunderstood your post. I thought your intention was to minimise the seriousness of 50ccs failings towards certain customers - as if they (the complaining customers) were just experiencing minor frustrations.

 

Consider me thoroughly chastised.

 

Des

reading your first posting on this thread and then your second on it Des, i cant make my mind up which side of the fence you are on, first it appears you are saying some companies are a little naughty and then the second post you seem to be saying its just a few "certain" customers who are needlessly complaining....

 

secondly i would say i dont think you would be making your second point if you was one of the "awkward" customers who are desperatly wanting to get their hands on something they originally had a target date and then thats come and gone and none the wiser....so although i have no complaints myself i do sympathise with the "awkward" few who seem to have reasonable claims to complain....but only my opinion nothing personal Des...

 

I'm not offended Keith. You're right. I haven't made myself at all clear. I'm actually very much on the side of 50ccs customers who are complaining about delays and so on. I don't like the way they are so often dismissed on this forum.

 

Someone once described this forum as an Ezee Love-in. A lovely, apt description. Now its just a 50cc love-in. It doesn't have the same ring does it?

 

Des

Diamond Agattu

 

Could someone please clarify just what has been said regarding the arrival or non-arrival of the daimond frame Agattu?

 

Every time I phone, I have to leave a message asking for Tim to call me but he never does...... the last I heard, it was going to be last week in Jan......

no harm done des

 

50 cycles website/business practice has been discussed a few times on this forum. i was essentially driving at the point that 50 cycles seem to make a rod for their own backs or score own goals if you like by repeatedly fronting their business with a website that has on a few occassions been misleading.

 

but i hasten to balance this by the fact that the electric market does keep changing it seems almost shipment by shipment. and that the nature of forums like this (and quite rightly too) is to examine every scrap of info a company puts into the public domain on our uniting interest electric bikes.

 

another balancing point is my own essential faith in the company as i await my pro connect

 

Someone once described this forum as an Ezee Love-in. A lovely, apt description. Now its just a 50cc love-in. It doesn't have the same ring does it?

 

Des

 

I doubt 50cycles would agree with that, given the number of times they've felt it necessary to protest at what's been posted.

 

I think the opinions expressed on them have been a very mixed bag, some who've had good service in the past praising it, others describing the opposite experience and expressing it accordingly, and of late it seems to be anything but a 50cycles love in.

 

I'm offering no opinion either way there, just an observation on the general drift of the postings and threads over time.

.

Although I haven't much checked their website, I would say that 50cycles advised me when I placed the order back in mid December for the diamond aggatu, that delivery should be "before the clocks go forward" so I haven't suffered disappointment (yet!). I agree that if any customers were led to believe otherwise then that would definitely not qualify as good business practice in my book.

Although I haven't much checked their website, I would say that 50cycles advised me when I placed the order back in mid December for the diamond aggatu, that delivery should be "before the clocks go forward" so I haven't suffered disappointment (yet!). I agree that if any customers were led to believe otherwise then that would definitely not qualify as good business practice in my book.

 

I'm afraid I was advised of imminent arrival shortly after 9th Jan (for all pre-orders.. )so in my book the saga continues.. And while I'm at it, "Hot on the heels of .." now seems a rather ironic phrase to be used on the homepage of this forum !

 

If you want my honest opinion, I feel that 50 cycles have been excellent in keeping me posted with updates on the situation, and Scott in particular has always followed up immediately on any query or concern. It is very easy to criticise a small start up company who are trying their best to build a respected business.

 

Having said that, a company should be very careful about making promises it can't keep. It makes no logical commercial sense. Now 50 cycles may argue of course that it is circumstance outwith their control.. but they have refrained from saying this completely and I think it has led to customer worry and frustration. I can't understand why they don't simply say that there are delays at Kalkhoff, and then we can always blame the Germans, something the Brits quite enjoy doing anyway. Perhaps they don't want to piss off their new partners, but unfortunately, they are beginning to piss off quite a few of their customers. As for myself, like I said, I haven't been that worried because I am paying for the bike through the cyclescheme and payments don't start coming out of my pay check until delivery.. and anyway Spring sounds like a good time to become a fuly fledged e-biker. But if 50 cycles delay again after the first week in March, I wil have to seriously reconsider my situation.

What do you do?

 

I sympathise with the frustration of those who've been waiting longer, especially if you've not heard much or been given false hopes. Mine was ordered 23 January and I was told February- so first week in March isn't tragic, if it isn't delayed again.

 

Question is what alternative there is? The reviews are so good that this is probably the best pedelec without spending a lot more- that's why we ordered one! And 50Cycles seem to have a UK monopoly and can't be enjoying this customer frustration- whether they have enough leverage over Kalkhoff is a different question.

 

What equal or better alternative is suitable and available?

I e-mailed Kalkhoff directly.. in English and in German... to ask what the situation is re the diamond frame Agattu. I did not receive a reply. Nor did Tim at 50Cycles return my call again.

 

If I don't get a call on Monday, I'll be cancelling my order. No bike in the world is worth tolerating this nonsense.

I have been in communication with Scott via PM's. After a little release of steam regarding this thread, I'm sure he won't mind me quoting his last message.

"I am actually visiting Germany this week to visit Derby Cycle and will report back on the Forum when I get back."

So why don't we all chill for a week and see what comes of Scott's visit.

 

John

I always thought this forum was about Pedelecs. Maybe it should be renamed:

'WHINGING GITS R US'

I always thought this forum was about Pedelecs. Maybe it should be renamed:

'WHINGING GITS R US'

 

I agree. Several times lately I've logged and logged straight back out when seeing the persistence of these consumerist subjects.

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