Is it Legal to Ride a UK Throttle Equipped Pedelec in Europe?

[VictoryV]

I believe it's called a "Greengrocer's apostrophe".

Yes it is the greengrocers' apostrophe if there is more than one of them, since I used to belong to an RAF Officers' Mess

 

[mike killay]

Surely it is time that we dumped the apostrophe.
It smacks of being a device of schoolmasters with which to berate and baffle their pupils.
It has no place in spoken language, everybody knows what you mean, viz' The Greengrocers' apostrophe is much abused by Greengrocers.
Equally so, if you are only talking about one such person, then Greengrocer's is correct. (I think!)

 

[flecc]

What about carpenters vice?. Does it have an apostrophe to show that it could belong to one or more carpenters, or is it a vice for carpenters, so no apostrophe? What about all the other tool names and stuff like engineers blue, or is it engineers' blue?

That's being far, far too serious in being grammatically correct. The point I was making is that the common practice of being deliberately incorrect in writing "greengrocer's apostrophe" is a pun, both highlighting and illustrating the error in question. As such, it also explains the subject for those unaware of it, so has a value.

Being too PC in pointing out the grammatical error in this brings the risk of being accused of needing a sense of humour. Yes, it's a weak pun, but as I've explained, it's a pun with a purpose.
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[Alan Quay]

Yes it is the greengrocers' apostrophe if there is more than one of them, since I used to belong to an RAF Officers' Mess

RAF officers don't (so far as I'm aware) have a reputation for using apostrophes in the wrong place. Greengrocer's do. (can you see what I did there?)

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That's being far, far too serious in being grammatically correct. The point I was making is that the common practice of being deliberately incorrect in writing "greengrocer's apostrophe" is a pun, both highlighting and illustrating the error in question. As such, it also explains the subject for those unaware of it, so has a value.

Being too PC in pointing out the grammatical error in this brings the risk of being accused of needing a sense of humour. Yes, it's a weak pun, but as I've explained, it's a pun with a purpose.
.

Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you Flecc. It's something that has always troubled me. I used to be a schoolteacher explaining about tools to the kids, so it was important to teach them correct grammar. I did a lot of research, but I could find no reliable answer to the question - that's if there is an exact answer.

 

[D8ve]

Perhaps the answer is to correct English?
It is illogical and varies due to its multilingual roots.
It causes higher rates of dyslexia and associated problems than more logical languages. Even Chinese has a much lower dyslexia rate than English. The prime example is a dyslexic in English but not in Chinese.
Latin also has value as the logical construction and spelling beats our screwed up mess where the exception proves the rule....

 

[mike killay]

I have never met a person dyslexic in Welsh which is almost totally phonetic in it's spelling.

 

[VictoryV]

Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you Flecc. It's something that has always troubled me. I used to be a schoolteacher explaining about tools to the kids, so it was important to teach them correct grammar. I did a lot of research, but I could find no reliable answer to the question - that's if there is an exact answer.

The basic rule is:

if there is only one, then to describe my pen I could say "Victor's pen" that is the pen that belongs to Victor

If there is more than one, then to describe the celebration of a victory I could write the "Victors' celebration" If you followed the basic singular rule you would have written "Victors's Celebration" meaning the celebration belonging to the victors, but that is very difficult to say so the second "s" is omitted to give "Victors' celebration"

 

[flecc]

Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you Flecc. It's something that has always troubled me. I used to be a schoolteacher explaining about tools to the kids, so it was important to teach them correct grammar. I did a lot of research, but I could find no reliable answer to the question - that's if there is an exact answer.

Thanks Dave. I think you are right to infer there may be no exact answer. I've just noticed that those who obviously know better commonly repeat the incorrect form to illustrate what is meant, and I've followed that practice.
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[flecc]

Perhaps the answer is to correct English?
It is illogical and varies due to its multilingual roots.

I'm not confident this would be wise. The opposing argument is the completeness of English to cope with all demands as it stands, resulting in it becoming the world's dominant language.

The world is on course to becoming mono-liguistic eventually. That's a thoroughly good thing in my view, ending the past Babylonic chaos which has been a prime element in the starting of wars.

Clearly no other supposedly superior language has measured up to the needs of our developing world so effectively. As with all gains, there are corresponding losses and you have mentioned one of those. However, I don't think its importance sufficient to lose the gains of staying with our present language and believe we should merely give support to those affected. Dyslexia has never held back the able, Richard Branson and Alan Sugar being current notable examples.
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[D8ve]

Dyslexia has had significant impact on the able.
True some dyslexics succeed but many struggle and a higher than average proportion end in prison.
When I was young the answer was to beat the lazy child until they learned.
This did me considerable harm.
Having a level physics chem and biology meant nothing with a mark of did not attend in English, despite trying hard.
My struggles have been long and despite my punishment for not seeing the beauty of English I have achieved a career, home and family.

 

[grldtnr]

Right boys , I think that is enough, reckon Robf is on message by now!, back to the OP original posting re wither a throttle is necessary or legal.

I do not think an able bodied person needs a throttle.
There are no apostrophes or grammatical error contained in this post ( yes wither was intended!)

 

[D8ve]

On the grounds of English winning the Darwinian fight to rule the world.
Any of the Arian languages could well have won. The race for Africa and Americas were nearly won by the Spanish and had the weather not saved England from the many armadas then ??
Or had Adolf been restrained by his generals the 3rd reich could have left us with a different choice.
Or perhaps mandarin as the most common first language has truly one!!
Sigh Gein

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The basic rule is:

if there is only one, then to describe my pen I could say "Victor's pen" that is the pen that belongs to Victor

If there is more than one, then to describe the celebration of a victory I could write the "Victors' celebration" If you followed the basic singular rule you would have written "Victors's Celebration" meaning the celebration belonging to the victors, but that is very difficult to say so the second "s" is omitted to give "Victors' celebration"

Yes, I know all the rules. That's not the question. In the case of carpenters vice, it doesn't belong to a carpenter. It belongs to the school, but it has the name carpenters vice because it's a vice for carpenters.. So, the question remains. Is it a vice of carpenters, or for carpenters to use. Apostrophe - yes or no?

 

[trex]

...
It belongs to the school, but it has the name carpenters vice...

I think the general rule is, if you are not certain, make it plural and omit the apostrophe. Write it as carpenters vice.
At least, everyone will understand.
After all, the apostrophe was not introduced that long ago, it was invented for the benefit of the printers.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Dyslexia has had significant impact on the able.
True some dyslexics succeed but many struggle and a higher than average proportion end in prison.
When I was young the answer was to beat the lazy child until they learned.
This did me considerable harm.
Having a level physics chem and biology meant nothing with a mark of did not attend in English, despite trying hard.
My struggles have been long and despite my punishment for not seeing the beauty of English I have achieved a career, home and family.

Seeing as this has developed into a thread for pedants, that wasn't the question. The fact that he's asking about its legality, sort of implies that OP does find a throttle necessary or useful.

Shall we have another debate (= slagging match) about throttles? I'll start it off. People that say throttles are not useful or unnecessary only say so because they spent a lot of money on their bike, which doesn't have one.

 

[trex]

throttle should be made illegal because it turns a bike into a mobility scooter.

 

[flecc]

Yes, I know all the rules. That's not the question. In the case of carpenters vice, it doesn't belong to a carpenter. It belongs to the school, but it has the name carpenters vice because it's a vice for carpenters.. So, the question remains. Is it a vice of carpenters, or for carpenters to use. Apostrophe - yes or no?

The ownership doesn't matter, the name is given before it is sold to anyone so it indicates the intended usage by all and any carpenters.

Therefore a good case exists for saying it's a simple plural with no possession involved, ergo, no apostrophe required or appropriate.

In that it has similarities with the "greengrocer's apostrophe", in that the apostrophe should not be there.
.
.

 

[flecc]

People that say throttles are not useful or unnecessary only say so because they spent a lot of money on their bike, which doesn't have one.

My Lafree didn't have one or need one and at £850 new it was hardly expensive, even long ago when I bought it. Large numbers of both normal and e-bikes were far dearer at the time.

However, I doubt the argument can be valid since a torque sensor in a pedelec is merely a foot operated throttle!
.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes but how can you show off that you've got an electric bike without a throttle. You can't glide away from the shops/pub on one pedal as you nonchalantly throw you leg over and disappear into the sunset.