£1,500 is not a huge price tag for a good bike.
I think it will if you can demonstrate better value for money.
Is £800 enough money to spend on an everyday ride to work bike.
- Thread starter Kudoscycles
- Start date
I think it will if you can demonstrate better value for money.
Many years ago when I was attending engineering college, we spent some time learning something about metallurgy and how the future for many metal applications was likely to come from the field of plastics. Indeed, one company was running prototype vehicle gearboxes largely comprised of varying types of plastic components. Early indications were promising, I was given to understand, and the notion of weight-saving and noise reduction were great motivation for continued work in that field.
Sadly, I'm not aware of any plastic-geared transmission making its way into a real-world road vehicle and I'm not sure if plastic technology has advanced sufficiently over the last half-century to make such a proposition any more possible today.
Tom
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I don't think so either Tom. If anything, ceramics technology has been more promising in the engineering field, though once again, not for any sort of gears to my knowledge.
This link has some interesting content on engineering ceramics.
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Trex,it clearly is too much for the OP who felt that £800 was a lot of money.
KudosDave
Being seen as bikes and not motor vehicles has been a legal blessing for e-bikes, but also a curse for value perception in a world where one can buy a new bike for £49.
.
Warwick is an exception. He paid only £345 for his bike a year ago. This time, he intends to upgrade and is prepared to build and to spend up to £800 on the next one. He clearly caught the e-biking bug. Who knows, a year from now, he may up his budget to £1,000 which many of us consider the right sort of budget for a self build commuter.
I don't ride much - about 1,500 miles a year, so I opt for a lightweight bike this time. My next bike project is based on something like the Giant Talon 0, roughly about the kind of bike you can build and sell for £1,500.
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Maybe it's just me and my wife.....but it would be far easier for me to buy a 600 bike and then upgrade bits "under the radar" than buy a 1000 bike in first place
I cannot be the only time to whom this sort of decision is a factor !
I cannot be the only time to whom this sort of decision is a factor !
Look out for our new models, especially our new Mid drive models dropping in March/April
Is the lead time really that short on a complete build including making the frames to suit your chosen drive system?I'm afraid I can't divulge the information until I've made a decision on which we're going with! But soon, maybe I'll put a post up here introducing the models when they land
It's clear you'd like to make your nice good quality £1300 bike, in which case you do have to persuade your customers to buy it. You'd have bikes that could potentially take sales away from either side.
Artstu....I have already made that bike,it is my Kudos Rapide and Sonata,I had a choice to put a crank drive unit in that bike but I prefer the BPM hub drive over the crank drive.
KudosDave
If it had not been for Woosh supplying a Santana at £625, I probably would still be pedalling to work with aching hips etc. I did 5000 miles in two years, with two new tyres and some brake pads/blocks. The chain was original when I sold the bike for £120, and it's still being used. (One new spoke in rear wheel). While £800 may not seem much to some people, there are people in the UK struggling to keep a roof over their heads, and needing transport to get to work to pay for that roof.
Yes I knew that. Guessing they didn't sell well then? that's brought us back to the persuasion point. However as a business man you choose to build the cheaper bikes that annoy you, because you know they're easier to sell.
Artstu....they are selling ok,but at £1300 you have to spend time explaining all the extra quality,at £1000 they sell themselves.
As a designer it's nice to produce the best you can,it is a bit frustrating that if you put a German name on a bike you can get £500 more for it even though you know the Germans are buying their frames from the same factory and selecting their parts from the same Chinese parts bin.
Yes my new models are all targeted at the UK preferred maximum price point of £1000,one is £695.00-a unique bike but not released until April/May,no further info at the moment.
KudosDave
I use the Tasman Impulse HS-8 11AH as the standard bearer for £1500 German bikes. I don't think you can beat that with a £1,000 Chinese bike.
https://www.50cycles.com/electric-bikes/activity-e-bikes/tasman_impulse_8_hs_11ah.html
Besides the paint quality, you have bespoke elements like their rear mudguard support that guarantees that the mudguard will look straight out of the box, rack with hanger for your pump etc. These are small things but real obstacles in finding a suitable factory in China to make for you in small series. Before you say, but they fit the Nexus hub gear instead of alfine and cheap SR CR-8V fork instead of Rockshox, Kalkhoff install reasonable quality essential stuff like Magura HS11 front and rear, Schwalbe tyres etc. very expensive to source in China.
Nexus inter 8 hub actually has better press than the Alfine version. And I am still scratching my head over the quality jump between HS11 and HS33 brakes the HS11 is so good why pay more for the HS33.
Tyres and wheels are where the Chinese bikes fall down badly. My experience is with Decathlon and even they have started mounting Hutchinson and Continental etc and double walled rims on their big ticket (over 450 €) bikes.
Tyres and wheels are where the Chinese bikes fall down badly. My experience is with Decathlon and even they have started mounting Hutchinson and Continental etc and double walled rims on their big ticket (over 450 €) bikes.
A forum member,named Jonathan Pallant,kindly came up to me at one of the shows to say how pleased he is with his Kudos Tourer/Nexus 8.
It's nice when customers do that and much appreciated.
Jonathan uses the bike every day for a 28mile commute,he has put a very fair review in the review section of this forum,he has covered 4000 miles in 10 months.
His review is not all positive,it's probably typical of any electric bike being used that much,but his review is real and shows that you don't have to spend £2.5k to reliably complete that task.
The Tourer/N8 is to my mind an underrated bike,it won't be made again because it's heavy and customers seem to want their bikes to be lighter,there are a few left at £895.00
KudosDave
It's nice when customers do that and much appreciated.
Jonathan uses the bike every day for a 28mile commute,he has put a very fair review in the review section of this forum,he has covered 4000 miles in 10 months.
His review is not all positive,it's probably typical of any electric bike being used that much,but his review is real and shows that you don't have to spend £2.5k to reliably complete that task.
The Tourer/N8 is to my mind an underrated bike,it won't be made again because it's heavy and customers seem to want their bikes to be lighter,there are a few left at £895.00
KudosDave
Trex....but that bike is normally £1895.00,it is currently on special at £1495.00,with the Impulse 2 motor!
Not really a current fair comparison.
KudosDave
The Kudos Rapide at £1,395 looks a bit over-priced.
Most of the kit is distinctly average, coil spring fork, Kenda tyres, no name wheels, heavy phosphate battery, separate controller tie-wrapped to the seat post.
The package doesn't say 'quality' to me, in comparison to bikes costing only a few hundred more from the likes of Cube, KTM and Kalkhoff.
A sixty quid hub wheel is way, way cheaper than a Bosch/Yamaha crank drive, so where's the value hiding in the Kudos bike?
Two things occur.
Dave is being greedy by wanting too much margin in the Rapide.
More likely, he cannot buy the bits cheap enough to sell the Rapide at a more reasonable £1,000 or so.
I'm sure the global bike brands can source components a lot cheaper than a relatively tiny company such as Kudos.
Most of the kit is distinctly average, coil spring fork, Kenda tyres, no name wheels, heavy phosphate battery, separate controller tie-wrapped to the seat post.
The package doesn't say 'quality' to me, in comparison to bikes costing only a few hundred more from the likes of Cube, KTM and Kalkhoff.
A sixty quid hub wheel is way, way cheaper than a Bosch/Yamaha crank drive, so where's the value hiding in the Kudos bike?
Two things occur.
Dave is being greedy by wanting too much margin in the Rapide.
More likely, he cannot buy the bits cheap enough to sell the Rapide at a more reasonable £1,000 or so.
I'm sure the global bike brands can source components a lot cheaper than a relatively tiny company such as Kudos.
Damn,got caught out....the company yacht is due for replacement,got to get the money from somewhere,hehe!
Tektro hydraulic brakes,Samsung lithium manganese battery,top of the range Suntour forks,BPM-CST motor,Shimano Deore gears,King Display,Polycarb mudguards.....compare the Sonata to the KTM Macina Bold,costing £600 more.
I don't select the BPM hub motor against the Bosch crank drive purely on price,I genuinely think it has better hill climbing ability,more suited to our terrain.
I think you have been persuaded by the strength of the Bosch publicity machine,these Bosch motored bikes are under powered for our terrain,the compromise of turning the power down to execute smooth loaded gearchanges badly affects the uphill performance. If Bosch had made BPM hub style motors and put their marketing machine behind it I doubt whether crank drive would exist,the others feel they have to make crank drive to be taken serious against the Bosch,no other reason.
My supplier is the largest e-bike manufacturer in the world,making over 3 million units per annum,also the largest frame manufacturer in the world....KTM,Kalkhoff etc are tiny companies relative to them and the Chinese always look after their own,I doubt they buy more competitively.
Signed,greedy KudosDave
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Oxygen bikes are the one that I consider to be way off the mark price wise.
I'd sooner walk than pay 1.6k for this http://www.oxygenbicycles.com/e-bikes/oxygen-mtb-x
I for one think that the market for sub 1k e-bikes is a very beneficial one. Whilst component quality might not be on par with higher end bikes, the price bracket does enable many to enter the e-bike market for the first time, and hopefully then get hooked, when they realise what the benefits are to owning and riding one.
Inevitably because of the cheaper OE components, these bikes might, if not properly maintained, wear out at a faster rate than a higher priced bike, but by that stage, the owner might have already been researching higher spec bikes, and be ready to take the plunge into a larger investment. Occasionally I might read something where someone is criticising a low spec or cheaply* priced bike, and to me this wrong. Without these cheaper* bikes, the higher end market might suffer. The only time that I would criticise is when the lower spec bike is pitched at an overinflated price, as in the case of Oxygen bikes.
* Accepting that what I am referring to as cheap, could equally be alot of money to someone else. Cheap probably isn't the right expression.
I'd sooner walk than pay 1.6k for this http://www.oxygenbicycles.com/e-bikes/oxygen-mtb-x
I for one think that the market for sub 1k e-bikes is a very beneficial one. Whilst component quality might not be on par with higher end bikes, the price bracket does enable many to enter the e-bike market for the first time, and hopefully then get hooked, when they realise what the benefits are to owning and riding one.
Inevitably because of the cheaper OE components, these bikes might, if not properly maintained, wear out at a faster rate than a higher priced bike, but by that stage, the owner might have already been researching higher spec bikes, and be ready to take the plunge into a larger investment. Occasionally I might read something where someone is criticising a low spec or cheaply* priced bike, and to me this wrong. Without these cheaper* bikes, the higher end market might suffer. The only time that I would criticise is when the lower spec bike is pitched at an overinflated price, as in the case of Oxygen bikes.
* Accepting that what I am referring to as cheap, could equally be alot of money to someone else. Cheap probably isn't the right expression.
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