Initial thoughts on Ave XH-3

[RobF]

Hence the greater use of derailleur gears on the more powerful ones, this avoiding the sudden breakage failures that can affect hub gears but of course not avoiding the high chain/sprocket wear resulting from very high applied torque.
.

This hardly inspires me to buy a crank drive, or are we saying the 250w 'legal' ones don't wear transmissions unduly?

Referring to range, some enormous distances - 100miles + - quoted for Kalkhoff's 2013 bikes:

Kalkhoff : Models 2013

 

[barrycoll]

( and that pulling power is multiplied by lower gears......quote)

but surely, Flecc, with 250+watts of extra turning power available to the legs, there is little need to use lower gears?
with that much non EPO available, one would already feel pretty bullet proof on even the biggest climbs...probable feel even stronger than the Big Men using 38X28 gearing for the 23% climbs on the Spanish Vuelta

 

[eddieo]

This hardly inspires me to buy a crank drive, or are we saying the 250w 'legal' ones don't wear transmissions unduly?

Referring to range, some enormous distances - 100miles + - quoted for Kalkhoff's 2013 bikes:

Kalkhoff : Models 2013

Fancy that........Buy one then!

 

[halfer]

RobF, I've not heard of any wear problems associated with crank systems - I've calculated I need to have 31 months of trouble-free usage on the Ave to get a similar TCO to the Juicy! I've got 24 months warranty, and the German engineering and Japanese components will probably help.

If I get any chain/derailleur wear in the long term, I'll of course report it here. (Un)fortunately you'll probably have to wait a long time for it

 

[flecc]

Yes, it's not a serious problem, but the potential is there for it to be one with weaker riders who drop to low gears and then slog at the pedals at low rpm. That exerts high forces into the torque sensor which results in high motor output in the low selected gear.

For most riders using a crank drive bike won't be a problem but it will mean much higher transmission wear than that from a hub motor bike. With the latter, only the rider's assistance goes through the chain, maybe peaking at 200 watts for short periods but more like 100 watts most of the time. That's far less than the combination of motor and rider power that goes through the transmission with crank drive, typically between 100 and 700 watts total according to circumstance.

 

[martin@onbike]

When I see and read reviews about bikes like these it really tempts me to go out and buy one. I've owned my Kalkhoff with its Panasonic drive for 4 1/2 years now and I am feeling a need for something different. There is something uniquely exciting about buying and owning a new bike. I think it must rekindle the excitement felt as a child when a new bike arrived, usually on Christmas morning. No doubt, they look fantastic and the Bosch drive seems to receive praise from almost everyone who has experienced it.

But try as I might, and I really want to have a new bike, I just know that it will end in disappointment. The Kalkhoff with its unresponsive elongated frame, sensible mudguards, "granny" drive system and big wheels is like a stout pair of brogues. It's perfectly at home doing the boring things like the endless repetitive trips to and from work with panniers strapped to it. This AVE bike looks much more exciting and no doubt will command more respect and admiration from the sporty mountain bike types. It will also be great fun on trips out into the country and I could imagine myself enjoying the local Peak District on one. But this is only 10% of my requirement from an Ebike. For the remaining 90% I need the brogues.

I suppose that I could buy an AVE or similar and put smooth tyres, mudguards and a rack on it. But that would compromise the bike. Or I could have two bikes. But then I wonder how the AVE battery would last being stood for weeks on end without use. The same conclusion is constantly arrived at. I'll have to wait until my circumstances change and make this type of bike a more practical option.

Until then, I think I'll just have to admire these bikes from a distance and with a slight pang of envy.

The Ave TH/SH-11's would fit the bill....only seen them in the flesh at the N.E.C though,but if they're anything like the MH-7,XH-3 and TH-5 they're probably pretty good...

On a side note,has anyone any experience of the new Panasonic Hub driven bikes?
..think i've seen them through KTM....

 

[martin@onbike]

Ah yes,here: eTour

 

[halfer]

I like the sweep of frame, very much like my favorite Swiss Flyer bikes. I had to use crud catcher mud guards on my specialized, you might have to as well...

Aha, I was going to ask about mudguards. The rear wheel is a problem, since there's a frame strut inside the top of the rear forks, which would seem to get in the way of a standard mudguard. I was told today by a LBS that my only solution would be to fix the mudguard to the seatpost. Since the Ave seat is removable, he also said I should swap the quick-release post fastener with a hex-key one, since removing the seat for security isn't much fun if it has a mudguard attached to it!

Is this how the Crud Catcher works - attaching to seatpost - and is it correct that this is my only fitting option?

 

[halfer]

I think I might be in danger of answering my own question here! This must be what you're referring to, and it seems that yes, it goes on the seatpost, even though - as per the photo - it's on a quick-release seat. Since I have to lock mine in public (unavoidable on a commuter bike, sadly) would you recommend a hex-key fitting for the post?

 

[martin@onbike]

Hi Halfer,i can't remember offhand-but is the frame strut not drilled?
If it is,then i'm sure we can come up with a standard set-up solution.....

If not,then a seatpost Mudguard like the one i showed you in the shop will be your only option....as for the Quick release collar-it would be a sensible precaution to swap that out for a fixed one anyway if the bike is to be left for any period of time.
It wouldn't hurt to run a cheap cable lock through the saddle arms to the frame either...and a breatheable cycle/motorcycle cover is worth the time ,so your lovely bike doesn't attract too much of the wrong kind of attention.

 

[RobF]

All the commuter bikes I saw parked on-street in London earlier this year had fixed seat clamps.

Clever 'unique key' version here:

Seatpost Clamp Security - Atomic22

 

[eddieo]

there are all sorts on STS website where I bought mine. yes rear fits to down tube, but under seat post. looking at pic of your bike it might just fit..may need a bit of fine tuning, but look at site as there are loads of different style ones including these

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/zefal-zefal-no-mud-front-or-rear-mudguard-prod25627/

the front one of mine just attaches to down tube, they are not as good as proper close fit guards but better then nothing...

 

[GaRRy]

All the commuter bikes I saw parked on-street in London earlier this year had fixed seat clamps.

Clever 'unique key' version here:

Seatpost Clamp Security - Atomic22

Nice until I saw the price.

 

[halfer]

Hi Halfer,i can't remember offhand-but is the frame strut not drilled?
If it is,then i'm sure we can come up with a standard set-up solution.....

Hi Martin

Yes, it's drilled. Just taken a pic:

As Eddieo says, there's a bit (maybe 10mm or so) of downtube before the quick-release bracket. As you say, the quick-release should be replaced anyway. I'll look forward to your solution involving the drilled strut!

 

[halfer]

Here's an angle view, with the strut a bit clearer:

 

[halfer]

there are all sorts on STS website where I bought mine. yes rear fits to down tube, but under seat post. looking at pic of your bike it might just fit..may need a bit of fine tuning, but look at site as there are loads of different style ones including these

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/zefal-zefal-no-mud-front-or-rear-mudguard-prod25627/

the front one of mine just attaches to down tube, they are not as good as proper close fit guards but better then nothing...

Actually they look pretty good, to be fair. I'll see what Martin suggests, and I'll then have choices

 

[martin@onbike]

Lol...i swear it looked better than that the last time i saw it!! (good for you for getting it out in this miserable British weather though)

Think Eddieo's solution may be the best option Jon....there's not an awful lot of clearance with those Racing Ralph's on....maybe if you do switch to the Marathon on the back,a standard guard set up would be an option,but it still looks tighter than i realised.

 

[martin@onbike]

I'll have a bit of a play with another one next week and see if it's possible.

 

[halfer]

Heh, yes - I took it out for an hour of light off-road today (a local park I mentioned, which has a lot more mud in it than my summer visit). Great fun!

Yes, the clearance does look to be a problem, unless the guard could go in front of the strut. No probs, I'll give Eddieo's suggestion a go. Thanks both.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you're after mudguards, these ones are pretty good - nice and long and only £13. They are just stiff enough that they don't need stays. I've fitted them to forks that are not even drilled: The bracket can be cable-tied securely to the fork crown.
SKS Beavertail Long Clip On Mudguards - Black 26"-28"