IGH gears vs. derailleur

[Kuhneye]

Which do you use and why?

Would you change if you could?

 

[philliptjohnson]

Derailleur, simply because with the choices I had given budget were all derailleur. Had hub gears on a Brompton before (non electric) and from a riding perspective I don't really have a preference... As long as the gears are suitable for the terrain I'm happy. Having said that I have cleaned and re indexed derailleur gears but never done anything similar with IGH

 

[Gurnard]

I like planetary/internal gear hubs. I have fitted then on 3 bikes so far. One on my electric with a Bafang 36v 350watt BBS02 on a 29inch mountain/hybrid bike.

The hassle with them is you have to build your own wheels really.

What I like about them is the ability to change gear any time you like, the low maintenance and the smoothness of the gear change. I can get derailleurs super smooth but they need cleaning every couple of months to keep them super smooth and then tweaking and then the jockey wheels go. So for me I find them too much hassle.

With hubs the maintenance is minimal, a soak in transmission fluid every couple of years or less. The fact I can stop in 8th gear and pull away in 1st is a real bonus for me. All my riding is inner city commute so loads of emergency stops. You can get a nice straight chain line also.
People complain about the weight. For me it makes no difference as my luggage is 2kg plus anyhoo.

 

[Gaz]

Derailleur for me. Simple to maintain and adjust. Not the end of the world to replace if it all goes wrong. How many of the Tour de France guys will be using the latest Sturmey Archer's?

Gaz

 

[Kuhneye]

I have 2 bikes:

Bike number 1 is non-electric, B'Twin Triban 540 FB, 2x10 Tiagra gears.

I have to clean and tune every few days as I do deliveries and can do close to 100 miles some days. In all weather and conditions.

I think it needs a new cassette and chain as I've had it a year now and done I don't know how many miles on it and only changed brake pads, tyres, tubes, pedals and grips.

Loved it when it was running good. Much harder last few months.

Bike number 2 is electric, Winora Radius plain, 20" wheels, hydraulic brakes, 2.15 tyres (awesome!), Yamaha PW motor (instant response!), i3 gears which broke with less than 200 miles (twice!). Even with 3 gears it was fun. Considering building in Alfine 8 (got another thread up in introductions about this).

I used to work on an Urban Arrow cargo bike with Bosch Performance motor. Huge but fun. Loved the Nuvinci gears! Just too expensive and heavy for my electric sadly.

 

[Ruadh495]

IGH for me. I use my bike for commuting and don't have a lot of time to maintain it. An IGH works with a chaincase, so chain lube stays where it's supposed to and the chain lasts and lasts. If I were touring I'd probably go derailleur for reparability, but I wouldn't tour on an E-bike anyway.

What I'd like: A wider gear range / more gears with reliability maintained (i.e to be able to afford a Rolhoff).

 

[Gurnard]

Yeah forgot to add the adjustment is so much simpler on IGH than it is on derailleurs. None of this A and B screws and cable adjustment. On Alfine you just match up the yellow lines in the little window (on an Alfine 8) by adjusting the cable length at the gear change and you are good to go.
Once they are set I have never needed to re-adjust even after 6000 + km. I did have to rebuild the wheel though because the rim wore out from the V-brakes.

I think the Rholoff would be the ultimate but the price is crazy. I am very happy with the Alfine 8 (501 better clutch than the 500) and they just brought out a new one which is supposed to be even smoother.

 

[grldtnr]

Which do you use and why?

Would you change if you could?

It depends what you use them for, for all round general use the advantages of IGH are superior to the deralliuer ,IGH ,you can adjust and forget it, it's a lot cleaner , you can fit fully enclosed chain case, keeps your self cleaner, especially in the rain, far less maintenance, and generally a lot easier to use

Deralliuer maybe marginally lighter, but you have far more maintenance to keep them right, expensive in the long run, need chain ,sprockets ,chain wheels ,jockey wheels replaced regularly if you want it to be reliable,the only plus point for them is you can build the right gear range for yourself.

There really is no reason why you could not tour or ,god forbid race on a IGH,. Shimano IGH go up to 11 innit!

 

[Gubbins]

I had an alfine 11 mtb!
Loved the gear sequence 1 to 11 with no double shifting, the quick change from 11 to 1 even when not moving, but it was problematic. Always skipping gears which needed constant readjusting . Pain to take off for a puncture. Low gears not low enough for an mtb. Wouldn't have another based on my experiences.

 

[fatwomble]

I like the idea of hub gears, but ultimately derailleurs are cheaper and more flexible as you can change wheels whenever you like

 

[Rohloffboy]

Well I must declare that I am not yet an ebike owner, although I have been riding igh Bikes since 1970!

I started of with a 3 Speed Moulten, then many years later 1999 got a Trek 930 with SRAM Spectro P7 igh, which my Son 32, now uses for his 10 mile commute to work.

I then made a leap of faith in 2004, and got me a a Rohloff SpeedHub, the rest as they say is history.

I am shocked and stunned that Ebikes come with derailleur gears, it's almost as though last century meets this century.

Ebike's should only come with igh, end of.

But there again I would only ever buy a Crank Drive ebike for that very reason.

Of course having never owned an ebike, what do I know,

 

[Kuhneye]

I've just spotted this:

https://www.taylor-wheels.com/bike-wheels/20-inch-bike-wheel/20-inch-rear-wheels/taylor-wheels-20inch-bike-rear-wheel-gruenert-dynamic4-6-bolt-disc-5-8-black

I could put on an 8 speed cassette? Would it last long on an ebike as a cheap alternative? (I have a Winora Radius) Or would Alfine 8 hub be better? (Bike will do hundreds of miles per week doing deliveries)

 

[Gubbins]

So why are hub geared ebikes a rarety?

 

[fatwomble]

Well I must declare that I am not yet an ebike owner, although I have been riding igh Bikes since 1970!

I started of with a 3 Speed Moulten, then many years later 1999 got a Trek 930 with SRAM Spectro P7 igh, which my Son 32, now uses for his 10 mile commute to work.

I then made a leap of faith in 2004, and got me a a Rohloff SpeedHub, the rest as they say is history.

I am shocked and stunned that Ebikes come with derailleur gears, it's almost as though last century meets this century.

Ebike's should only come with igh, end of.

But there again I would only ever buy a Crank Drive ebike for that very reason.

Of course having never owned an ebike, what do I know,

No doubting that they are very good, my Brother in law swears by them. But they are massively expensive, unless they have come down in price in the last few years.

 

[soundwave]

So why are hub geared ebikes a rarety?

because there useless for off road and down hill use why most hub gear bikes have the active motor and are meant for the road.

a sram eagle has 500% gear range and a lot cheaper that the 1k hub gears

 

[Kuhneye]

Would these work together?:

https://www.taylor-wheels.com/bike-wheels/20-inch-bike-wheel/20-inch-rear-wheels/taylor-wheels-20inch-bike-rear-wheel-gruenert-dynamic4-6-bolt-disc-5-8-black

+

https://www.taylor-wheels.com/bike-parts/cassettes-chains/cassettes/replacement-set-cassette-8-speed-shimano-chain-hg40-cassette-hg41

+

https://www.taylor-wheels.com/shimano-alfine-chain-tensioner-ct-s500-black

 

[flecc]

So why are hub geared ebikes a rarety?

The real reason with crank motor ones is the hub gear torque limits, which with both rider and motor power through them can easily exceed the makers limit.

Shimano used to make 3, 4 and 7 speed gear hubs, but the 4 speed often failed on one of the Lafree models which had the Panasonic crank motor. In response Shimano discontinued it and have made no gear hub between 3 and 7 speed since. Their larger diameter 8 speed hubs have been designed to be more robust, but they still warn the e-bike makers about the torque limits by specifying limits on the chainwheel rear sprocket tooth ratios.

Bosch supply their crank motors in a lower torque version for gear hub use by the bike makers.
.

 

[Trevormonty]

The real reason with crank motor ones is the hub gear torque limits, which with both rider and motor power through them can easily exceed the makers limit.

Shimano used to make 3, 4 and 7 speed gear hubs, but the 4 speed often failed on one of the Lafree models which had the Panasonic crank motor. In response Shimano discontinued it and have made no gear hub between 3 and 7 speed since. Their larger diameter 8 speed hubs have been designed to be more robust, but they still warn the e-bike makers about the torque limits by specifying limits on the chainwheel rear sprocket tooth ratios.

Bosch supply their crank motors in a lower torque version for gear hub use by the bike makers.
.

This is why you only see Bosch Performance and CX drives with Nuvinci and Rohloff, never with Alfine or Nexus.

 

[tommie]

This is why you only see Bosch Performance and CX drives with Nuvinci and Rohloff, never with Alfine or Nexus.

Alfine 8 here with BBS02 750w, and that's more torque than the Bosch motors throw out.

It`s all in the gearing.... keep it spinning, don`t ever let it bog down.

 

[Kuhneye]

Alfine 8 here with BBS02 750w, and that's more torque than the Bosch motors throw out.

It`s all in the gearing.... keep it spinning, don`t ever let it bog down.

That's really good to hear, thank you.