Help! How to set up KT T06P LCD4 kit + 250w sensorless motor

[JulianRL]

Hi, I installed the KT T06P LCD4 kit but the motor is making a strange noise in the 5th speed setting and sometimes in 4th. What could it be, any thoughts, the motor worked great before I damaged the internals of the old controller (when it wasn't on before you ask lol)? Bike is the E-Plus Commute 36v folding Argos used to sell.

I bought the KT06P + LCD4 kit especially for my sensorless motor but isn't performing as it should, it is quite loud and the bike runs much slower then before even it it's in max speed settings.

Can anyone please tell me how to set up P and C parameters for my motor? it is a 250w/36v motor with 3 planetary gears and 20 or 21 magnets from what I can remember if that helps.
I do not know what to set for P1 as i don't know the motor gear reduction ratio or how to find this.

Also I set P2 it to 0 as I don't know the number of signals by a revolution...is this important and how to find this number please.
Also tried C2=1 and C2=0, and all possible phase wires permutations and still no luck.

The bike works okay ish, although slower than it used to. on speeds 1-3 seems okay , but on 4 and especially 5, it is very loud and is juddering, mainly uphill.

I really appreciate any help you can provide as I don't know what to do at this point. Thank you

 

[saneagle]

The noise is because the motor is not able to stay in sync with the commutation pulses - basically, a timing issue. I've had that before when running a sensorless KT controller. I solved mine with the P1 setting. When I set it it correctly, it didn't work, so I just kept choosing random numbers until I found one that worked - possibly 260. The correct setting for yours is probably 100, so try that first, then 260, then pray to God and start choosing random ones.

P2 is for the speed sensor. There isn't one in your motor, so you should set it to 1 if you fitted an external sensor, otherwise zero. With zero, it won't show the speed when freewheeling and there might be other problems with speed calculation or display.

Don't continue on max power when the motor loses sync because it can damage the MOSFETs. Just back off until it runs smooth.

Please keep us updated.

 

[JulianRL]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. I will let you know the results as soon as I can try all those settings. Do you know where I can buy a speed sensor, as it is pretty annoying not to have a reading when freewheeling? I attached a picture with the plugs on my controller. Any idea what exactly to search for? Thanks again for your help.

 

[saneagle]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. I will let you know the results as soon as I can try all those settings. Do you know where I can buy a speed sensor, as it is pretty annoying not to have a reading when freewheeling? I attached a picture with the plugs on my controller. Any idea what exactly to search for? Thanks again for your help.

You can use any speed sensor you want. Specific for ebike ones have three wires and use a hall sensor. The wires are 5v , ground and signal. KT controllers sometimes have a separate connector for it with white red and black wires, like the one in your photo. They also sometimes use those colours for the throttle, so be careful. WIthout the separate connector, you connect the white signal wire to the white wire in the motor cable and splice the red and black into any of the others in the pedal sensor, throttle or motor connectors.

Alternatively, you can cut the sensor off a disused or cheap cycle computer. They have two wires. One (either) goes to the white wire and the other goes to either any ground (black) or any 5v (red). You have to try it to see which of the two works, as they can be different ways round on different controllers.

Ebike Wheel Speed Sensor for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for Ebike Wheel Speed Sensor. Shop with confidence.

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Pardon our interruption...

 

[JulianRL]

Hi, I just tried P1=30, 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 (255 is max setting) + C2=1 C2=0 and many other random numbers in between and still no luck, although when P1=40 seems to be a quieter and almost perfect in speed 4 but still quite loud when selecting speed 5...
Is it possible to have received a defective controller? Or could the motor be defective (unlikely, in my opinion, as it works and sounds as it should at all the lower speeds). The seller also tried to help and sent me the instructions pdf and many settings, but to no avail. I don't see what the problem could be, as the controller is made especially for a 250w sensorless motor...
Any ideas would be much appreciated, as I'm losing hope here. I have attached the detailed manual for this kit. Maybe you can spot something that might help figure this out. Thank you! Julian

 

[saneagle]

Hi, I just tried P1=30, 50, 100, 150, 200, 250 (255 is max setting) + C2=1 C2=0 and many other random numbers in between and still no luck, although when P1=40 seems to be a quieter and almost perfect in speed 4 but still quite loud when selecting speed 5...
Is it possible to have received a defective controller? Or could the motor be defective (unlikely, in my opinion, as it works and sounds as it should at all the lower speeds). The seller also tried to help and sent me the instructions pdf and many settings, but to no avail. I don't see what the problem could be, as the controller is made especially for a 250w sensorless motor...
Any ideas would be much appreciated, as I'm losing hope here. I have attached the detailed manual for this kit. Maybe you can spot something that might help figure this out. Thank you! Julian

It's always tricky to get sensorless controllers working with some motors. The only controller that had 100% success was the KU63 from BMSBattery, but they've changed it now, so it might not work as well.

Try more random numbers, like 51, 49, 171. Your ones are basically all harmonics of the same one.

 

[JulianRL]

I tried so many random numbers and settings that I lost count. I don't see any difference with any number I put in, and some won't even save... The bike works and sounds the same regardless of my input...I have no idea what to do next. Any more ideas or things I could try? Thanks

 

[Nealh]

Try P1 84 and +/- 4 to 5 in single increments either side.

 

[saneagle]

I tried so many random numbers and settings that I lost count. I don't see any difference with any number I put in, and some won't even save... The bike works and sounds the same regardless of my input...I have no idea what to do next. Any more ideas or things I could try? Thanks

The only other thing you can try is the C2 pararameter. Go through all settings 0 to 7. I seem to remember a while back somebody fixing their rough running with it.

 

[JulianRL]

The only other thing you can try is the C2 pararameter. Go through all settings 0 to 7. I seem to remember a while back somebody fixing their rough running with it.

From the Chinese user manual:

C2 parameter setting interface - C2 is motor phase classification coding setting, it is served as identification parameter of different phases of the motor when using sine wave drive and the default value is 0. When C2 setting is 0, indicating that the used Quantum motor phase is an ordinary one. When the setting is a certain value, indicating a particular motor phase is used. C2 setting range is 0-1

I tried 1 and 0 and it made no difference...

Thanks. Julian

 

[saneagle]

From the Chinese user manual:

C2 parameter setting interface - C2 is motor phase classification coding setting, it is served as identification parameter of different phases of the motor when using sine wave drive and the default value is 0. When C2 setting is 0, indicating that the used Quantum motor phase is an ordinary one. When the setting is a certain value, indicating a particular motor phase is used. C2 setting range is 0-1

I tried 1 and 0 and it made no difference...

Thanks. Julian

Are you sure you only have two values? My manual says 0 - 7.

 

[danielrlee]

Are you sure you only have two values? My manual says 0 - 7.

Older KT displays only have two options for custom parameter C2, newer displays have eight.

 

[saneagle]

Older KT displays only have two options for custom parameter C2, newer displays have eight.

Do you know exactly what they do? I can understand 60 deg and 120 deg. How else can they be different, or do they work for motors with multiple phases other than 3?

 

[saneagle]

Here's the thread that I mentioned before, which was regarding a sensored motor:

Help! - SR Suntour Resurrection Project - 'P' and 'C' values?

A friend of mine was given a Carrera Vulcan as the previous owner had got fed up trying to fix it. In their frustration the owner had cut out and removed most of the cables and sensors so my friend inherited the battery and Suntour HESC motor (plus bike of course) but little else. Onwards and...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Another one here from ES, which seems to describe exactly OP's problem:

Throttle/Controller Issue, S-LCD3, MAC 350w, C2 Parameter?

Hey guys, I just installed my MAC 350w with BMS Battery 48v battery and integrated 18A sine wave controller (https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/774-48v116ah-case-08-bottle-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html), and I'm getting some strange behavior from the throttle. The motor power "cuts out"...

endless-sphere.com

My next question is whether these values are not available for sensorless operation.

 

[danielrlee]

Do you know exactly what they do? I can understand 60 deg and 120 deg. How else can they be different, or do they work for motors with multiple phases other than 3?

I have always assumed that C2 alters the phase timing/order, but have never actually been able to confirm this. Phase degrees could be part of the calculation.

 

[Nealh]

It does Daniel , I tried it once when out on a ride going from C2 0 through to C2 5 , commutation was terrible and made a right racket.

 

[danielrlee]

It does Daniel , I tried it once when out on a ride going from C2 0 through to C2 5 , commutation was terrible and made a right racket.

I wasn't suggesting that I've never tried altering C2, just that I've never quantitively measured it's effect, nor seen a detailed explanation from Suzhou Kunteng Electronics.

 

[JulianRL]

Hi everyone, just tried to upload a video but got an error during the process so here's a direct link to a video with the problem that I uploaded on YouTube so you can hear the motor when I select the 5th speed. Hopefully you can open it and get a better idea on what's going on. Thanks.

noise in 4th and 5th motor speed setting

youtube.com

 

[Nealh]

Yes is a phase issue.
What is your C5 setting, is too much current being asked for ?

 

[Nealh]

It may just be that the motor doesn't like the Kt controller, personally I have used a few different hubs with sinewave Kt and never encountered an issue so can only assume it may be an incompatability issue.