How much you knew about the E-bike batteries ?

10mph · Oct 24, 2012

Oh dear! This looks rather like commercial spam from China.

A identical looking post was made two weeks ago on another forum, here: teach you something about E-bike batteries.

. The poster there said,

Hi,
This is Robin from Gens Ace battery...
Nice to join motorbikes this big family...

Gens Ace is a famous brand for RC hobby batteries,
Actually, we are specialized in E-bike batteries also...

we are a battery specialist... So if you guys meet any problems about the batteries, please feel free to contact me,
I am glad to help

So is he Robin? Benson? Advertising spam? Form your own judgement.

Deleted member 4366 · Oct 24, 2012

Yesterday there was a banner at the top of the page, so Gens Ace are an official sponsor of the forum. I don't quite see this as spam because they aren't pushing any particular product, neither did they try and explain why their batteries are any better than anyone elses other than their preference for pouch cells. I think it's nice that they introduce themselves and at the same time give some useful information.

Don't forget that, unlike Endless-Shere, this forum is a commercial operation. Businesses pay to advertise here, so they want at least a chance to introduce what they sell, and the likes of you ( and many others) spend lots of time helping people and providing information to attract people into the forum, and we get nothing for it.

the_killjoy · Oct 24, 2012

Shouldn't their post identify themselves as a commercial poster like 'most' of the dealers on here ?

Deleted member 4366 · Oct 24, 2012

I think his name and the big banner that keeps appearing at the top of the page gives it away a bit.

jerrysimon · Oct 24, 2012

Once you get over the pigeon English, I actually found the post a good read and quite informative.

Though it blows away my preference for small 36v 2.3Ah 2* (6s1p) A123 batteries lol

Gens Ace battery said:
To choose a suitable E-bike battery, you should to check your motor first to see its voltage requirement and the power of the motor... For example. if your motor is 36V 250W, then your battery should be 36V 7Ah minumum, of course 7Ah is too small, you can ask it larger to be around 10Ah, the capacity will affect the distance of your riding... Maybe your motor need big power over than 750W, then you will need bigger power battery to hold...just make up your mind and got the correct models...

Three years, 4000 miles and over 800 charge cycles and counting

Regards

Jerry

flecc · Oct 24, 2012

Hi Benson, thank you for your extensive and informative post. One tip, the easy way to get round the name problem with LiCoxNiyMnzO2 (lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide) batteries is to refer to them as compound cathode batteries

I'd like to correct a couple of the points you make.

The safety position on LiMn2O4 (li-ion manganese) and LiCoO2 (li-ion cobalt) is the reverse of what you've said. E-bikes with lithium batteries originally used LiCoO2, but following a number of fires that chemistry was abandoned in favour of LiMn2O4 which has proved to be very safe, albeit not performing as well as LiCoO2 initially. Manganese cathode batteries are far more tolerant of manufacturing quality variation than those with cobalt based cathodes, due to propensity of the latter's chemistry to grow jagged crystals of metallic lithium which puncture the insulation layers.

Of the large e-bike battery manufacturers, Panasonic did not start with 18650 cells, it was the reverse, their earlier batteries all used prismatic soft cell construction like that on their 26 volt 10 Ah battery below:

neptune · Oct 24, 2012

I found the original post interesting and informative, although apparently inaccurate and controversial in parts. It would be better in my opinion if the information given had been summarised at the end in the form of a table. Suggested column headings;
Battery chemistry in the form of a formula.
Ditto as a spoken name
Power density
Weight
Cost
Safety concerns.
Number of cycles.

Feel free to add to this list.

10mph · Oct 24, 2012

I still think there is an element of spam in this. I have found a further two places where an apparently identical post has been made by a poster from Gens Ace Battery, so that at least 4 places spammed with this post.

One way of pushing your product, I suppose. A bit of searching reveals this is the parent organisation: ABOUT US . I don't find the name Grepow when searching this forum, so it may be new to members. They have not been in Li e-bike batteries very long.

The website above has some pretty slides explaining the technology. As the posts by Neptune and others suggest they need some fact checkers to monitor their employees posts here.

Old_Dave · Oct 24, 2012

I believe that a dealer / trader would never ever alter some 'facts' or misinform to create some kind of advantage.

I also believe that fairies live at the bottom of gardens and that drinking ice cold beer helps to loose weight (due to the calorific requirements of raising it to body temperature).. but its only a wisper

shemozzle999 · Oct 24, 2012

They are relative newcomers known in the radio control model market but from the voltage sizes now on offer seems like they are trying to attract the ebike market too.

Lipo 12S-44.4V - Gens ace

Kudoscycles · Oct 24, 2012

The original posting is so full of errors as to be useless,LifePo4 is not expensive but it does have a lower energy density,if that could be addressed it would be the perfect battery for e-bikes. For our new performance range I have selected LiMn04 for one reason only,they are lighter and less bulky,which suits the accommodation packaging mounted within the frame triangle.
I recently read that the big motor yachts are moving towards lithium batteries and all are using Lithium Iron Phosphate(LifePo4),in this case the principal reason is safety,they are without question currently the safest of the lithium family of batteries.
Kudos is coming up to 2 years old,anniversary next February. Our original decision to power our bikes with LifePo4 was a sensible one. The Kudos Sport was our first model for sale and some of the original bikes are coming up to 2 years old now. To date I can honestly report that no customer has reported any loss of capacity or performance from his LifePo4 battery,there are over 1300 Kudos bikes in use now. We have had some failures of the batteries, no more than 20,the failures are usually an imbalance on the cells or a failure of the BMS system but no battery has shown signs of premature cycle wear.
I am happy to report that the long life claims of LifePo4 are proving to be honest.
As the years roll by it will be interesting for LifePo4 battery owners to report on how long,both in terms of mileage,cycles and calendar their LifePo4 batteries last. If that last kg of weight is not that critical and let's be honest most of us could usefully lose a few kg then the LifePo4 option would seem to make e-bike ownership very economical.
I have managed to keep replacement battery costs at average £200 but fortunately have supplied almost zero replacement batteries,in fact most of our sales seem to be pedelec members and other trade suppliers who use us as spares support for other marques.
Would welcome comments from other owners who are using LifePo4.
Dave
Kudoscycles

shemozzle999 · Oct 24, 2012

I think they would agree with you Dave as they also have a line of LifePO4.

LIFE-PO - Gens ace

Kudoscycles · Oct 24, 2012

shemozzle999 said:
I think they would agree with you Dave as they also have a line of LifePO4.

LIFE-PO - Gens ace

But they describe it as expensive that is obviously untrue,hence my posting.
Dave
Kudoscycles

neptune · Oct 24, 2012

I notice that, on their website, Gens ace are coy about the actual price. Poor marketing. Do they feel that to most people , money is no object?

shemozzle999 · Oct 24, 2012

Well I hope they are monitoring these posts and come back and clarify their position.
I welcome other manufacturers joining the forum, more so battery manufacturers, the more the merrier.

shemozzle999 · Oct 25, 2012

Welcome to the forum Benson and sorry for the impression some members have given.
I am sure the majority of members would be interested in your ebike products.

Deleted member 4366 · Oct 25, 2012

I think that the behaviour of some of our forum members is shameful.

Gens Ace has done everything right. He paid good money to sponsor the forum before making his first post; he spent a lot of time explaining his ideas about batteries, and all you lot want to do is accuse him and rip his ideas to shreds.

Whatever happened to welcoming new members and sponsors.

Benson, thank you for your information about batteries. Please continue to share your knowledge. There's a lot of people that read this forum, who never write anything.

eddieo · Oct 25, 2012

Benson welcome! I found it very interesting and filed it away for later....Have always found batteries a bit of a mystery but this breaks down the differences into understandable chunks...

How much you knew about the E-bike batteries ?

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