how much would petrol need to increase to change driving habits

[flecc]

London is not representative of the whole of Britain, the rest of us have had public transport cuts.

I don't know if you read earlier posts, but they show London is no different. At one point of the decline in London's transport we'd dropped to some 4500 buses and other transport systems were failing.

But at that low point we got a GLC leader with the imagination to do something about it in two separate phases. In the first as Council Leader he introduced a policy called Fares Fair. I won't go into the complexity of why it worked dramatically, but it did.

In the second phase as London Mayor he introduced the congestion charge which did the rest. This what we have now:

Over 9500 buses, well over doubled.

Heavily subsidised fares.

A new tram system.

The DLR expanded three more times since the congestion charge.

Free travel for up to 16 years or 18 in full time education. Free travel for all over 60s. The OAP freedom pass applies on Bus, tram, Tube, DLR, London Overground and TfL Rail. And for those who pay on buses, after first tapping in a card on the first trip, it's free for an hour for any subsequent trips

600,000 cycle commutes daily and improving cycle facilities.

Crossrail nearing completion, greatly increasing east- west capacity.
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[flecc]

This still only applies to London and not the real world where there is no money to subsidize bus services as they do in London, hence companies like Arriva and Stagecoach can charge lesser fares, as I said before the rest of us have had public transport cuts,

READ MY POSTS!

Particularly the last one on this link. We had a past of painful cuts just like yours.

We made the money in the ways described, then used it to subsidise public transport and cycling. You can do the same, but all iRider does is say that doesn't work when it so patently does.

You all need to stop being so negative up there and start to actually do something different.

hey! when has London ever considered the north.

London's successful City earns a surplus averaging £50 billions a year which the government takes from here for the other regions every year. That's what we do for you. If it's not reaching your area, tell the government, we can't decide where it goes.

And in London we do care. I'm strongly supportive of Andy Burnham's drive to improve Northern Rail and think the continued use of diesel railcars up there is a disgrace in the 21st century.
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[iRider]

This still only applies to London and not the real world where there is no money to subsidize bus services as they do in London, hence companies like Arriva and Stagecoach can charge lesser fares, as I said before the rest of us have had public transport cuts, but hey! when has London ever considered the north.

EXACTLY.. Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[Amoto65]

My point exactly nowhere else in the country has free travel for the over 60s only London and that is because central government has cut funding to the rest of the country, contrary to your misguided beliefs of the propaganda you read and as for Andy Burnham he is a complete clown who wants to charge buses a congestion charge for going into the city while not paying subsidies.

 

[iRider]

When any city outside London starts to attract a fraction of the levels of tourists that London does, then maybe they too will be in a position to start forcing people onto public transport. That day however is never going to come but don't let the fact millions of tourists are propping up your subsidised public transport infrastructure interfere with your diktat to other cities.

As for claiming you too suffered the pain of implementation until the process of change which was in the late 1990's and early 2000's. That was at a time of spending boom, especially in London, all be it based upon a growing deficit in the books. It was well before austerity cuts decimated infrastructure spending and individual household budgets. Yet you suggest we should suffer this pain in this new and very different backdrop? Wake up an smell the coffee..

 

[flecc]

EXACTLY.. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Presumably your reading ability is limited, since I've already explained how we suffered the same cuts and steep falls in public transport. And what we did about it. Try reading from the top of this web page to see the outcomes.

Then if you still say it doesn't work I can only assume you are a bigot.
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[iRider]

Then if you still say it doesn't work I can only assume you are a bigot.
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If you knew what that word meant, even you would see the irony in that statement......

 

[flecc]

My point exactly nowhere else in the country has free travel for the over 60s only London and that is because central government has cut funding to the rest of the country

"London has free travel for the over 60s because the government cut funding elsewhere?" Rubbish, we subsidise our own fares from our own income, nothing to do with central funding. That's why all our youngsters travel free as well, nothing to do with the government.
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[flecc]

OK iRider and Amoto65, just carry on as you are, being negative, complaining, doing nothing and attacking anyone or anything that others try to do. Manchester's trams, Andy Burnham, London's congestion charge, Central Government.

With those miserable attitudes it's no wonder the North is suffering.
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[Amoto65]

You are totally wrong about the free travel for the over 60s it was forcefully introduced by central government across the whole country and local councils were made to subsidize it by paying a fee to the bus companies for every pass each time it was used, consequently when central government cut funding to the local councils they cut back on the amount they paid the bus companies forcing bus companies to drop many rural routes and the local councils to increase the age for free travel.

 

[Amoto65]

So when anyone challenges your point of view you class them as miserable or a bigot, how very intelligent of you.

 

[flecc]

free travel for the over 60s it was forcefully introduced by central government across the whole country and local councils were made to subsidize it by paying a fee to the bus companies for every pass each time it was used,

Correct, but I didn't post to the contrary. What I posted is that London's travel subsidies are self funded via TfL now, such as free travel for old and young and discounted fares. Some other local authorities have their own schemes.
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[Andy McNish]

It takes many decades for those living outside a city but working in it to filter through the system, introducing an overnight charge isn't going to address the problem, it is income generation, usually from those least able to afford it, and the ones who can pay it without batting an eyelid don't care so certainly won't be driven onto an inefficient, inhospitable, over priced public transport system. So blaming people for buying a house in the suburbs and getting a job in the city is yet more 'I'm alright jack' claptrap.

To an extent I agree with you. Despite having a two car household and free parking at work if I want it, I have used public transport and bikes to get into work for 30 years and I still voted against the congestion charge when they asked. It was badly thought out in Manchester and too far out.

But the way to increase usage is simply to stop spending all the money on making the commute easier for cars. Spend it on public transport, pedestrian zones and cycleways instead. If you can get into town on a bike, train or bus in 50 minutes and it takes twice as long in a car even rich commuters will shift. It's time to stop encouraging the car.

And as city centres pedestrianise and more and more young people choose to live in them, the city becomes less and less hospitable to cars in general. And better for cyclists and trams etc. We can see from Europe that this is the future of the city. Cars and the commute in simply aren't the future any more....

 

[flecc]

So when anyone challenges your point of view you class them as miserable or a bigot, how very intelligent of you.

My point of view wasn't being challenged, some facts were. And I think anyone would think the relentless negativity being expressed was being miserable.
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[Jayfdee]

I bike, walk, run, use my bus pass, and drive my PHEV, as appropriate.
Lucky to live where this possible.

 

[Benjahmin]

I live in a large village. My nearest bank is now a 30 mile round trip, as is the nearest supermarket of any consequence. The nearest town (4 miles away) has a bus service that goes to this city. It departs at 7:30 am and returns at about 3:00pm. There is no linking service apart from something called ,'Bookabus', which doesn't run to a timetable. There is an expensive village shop (which I try to support) otherwise a 4 mile cycle to local town.
An overall increase in fuel prices will always punish the rural driver as modern life here doesn't function without a car. Full electrics and phevs seem to be beyond the price range of a lot of people hereabouts, so ICE it is, for now.
Not really complaining mind 'cos my journey times are much shorter, crime rate much lower and the ability to ride for miles on empty little roads is a joy.

 

[Andy McNish]

I live in a large village. My nearest bank is now a 30 mile round trip, as is the nearest supermarket of any consequence. The nearest town (4 miles away) has a bus service that goes to this city. It departs at 7:30 am and returns at about 3:00pm. There is no linking service apart from something called ,'Bookabus', which doesn't run to a timetable. There is an expensive village shop (which I try to support) otherwise a 4 mile cycle to local town.
An overall increase in fuel prices will always punish the rural driver as modern life here doesn't function without a car. Full electrics and phevs seem to be beyond the price range of a lot of people hereabouts, so ICE it is, for now.
Not really complaining mind 'cos my journey times are much shorter, crime rate much lower and the ability to ride for miles on empty little roads is a joy.

I don't think raising petrol prices helps much. As you say it targets lots of people who have no option/aren't the problem. I suppose it encourages more fuel efficiency though which is a good thing generally.

It is the commute into big cities that is the issue. They should simply stop prioritising the commuter in his little steel box who wants to drive into and back from work in a city centre at peak times.

They should concentrate on making cities places for people who live in them, not places for cars. Pedestrianisation, better public transport, walking and cycling, park and rides. They are the future.

Just make it clear to people who commute by car that their commutes will get longer and more difficult whilst people who live in town or commute in other ways will find life easier in the future.