how much would petrol need to increase to change driving habits

I can remember the fuel supply & price hikes in the 1970's, which lead to changes in driving styles to increase economy.

When cycling I am often overtaken, only for the car to then brake to make a turn, when a few seconds delay behind would have achieved the same time at the turn without causing me to brake.

This got me to thinking about the extra fuel used to accelerate & then brake.

I know cars have improved immeasurably but it seems that the responsibility for fuel economy has been passed from the driver to the car manufacturer.

Just a bank holiday thought

Even if hypothetically each action like that would save an extra 5pmg or more, it boils down to a mentality. People change once they get behind a wheel and the mentality of I must get past at whatever means takes over even if it means an unsafe pass or as you point out a totally pointless manoeuvre for the sake of a few seconds patience/courtesy.

I had a typical instance yesterday. Whilst on a slip road signalling to turn left in to a side road a vehicle behind thought cyclist I will go around him, I was already taking up my prime road position of about a 1m from the kerb so I wouldn't be squeezed but said mentality of driver appeared non existent until he realised he couldn't get pass. On entering said side road I kept my road position because of a line of cars parked at the kerb, driver tunnel vision focusing purely on me led them not seeing the bigger picture of what laid a head as they turned and had to follow me.

 

I notice some riders hug the kerb and put themselves at more risk simply because they have increased the danger by allowing drivers room to which they think nothing of when close passing. Holding a decent prime road position means most drivers have to think a bit more possibly about passing, though there are still to many dick heads out there driving who don't give a toss.

Edited May 26, 20196 yr by Nealh

To answer the question, at least double the retail cost per gallon, probably more.

 

Just look at the reluctance to buy e-cars, even in those who they suit and who can afford them. My new Nissan Leaf runs at 200 mpg equivalent cost on night rate electricity yet even that amazing economy doesn't attract them.

 

And there's also a big snag with them switching to e-cars from your point of view, with maximum torque from zero revs, their low end acceleration is often phenominal, so making matters worse at very low cost to the driver.

 

The only thing that would work over time would be legislation forcing manufacturers to revert to 1930s performance levels, but it would take at least 20 years to get all the faster ones off the road.

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Toyota have pulled out of the diesel super mini class in the uk.

When they sold the last of the yaris diesels I purchased one for my business, under ten grand.

At least a tenner a gallon then habits may change generally but the issue will still crop up still when a slower road user is ahead, it won't stop stupid or unthoughtful thinking of the situation, education and teaching is needed more then ever today for the ignorant selfish motons.

 

Eventually I can see all 30 limits change to 20 limits which now appear on all new build projects and some local roads where traffic is heavy and busy, just as they are reduced near schools. The future will be GPS enabled car systems which will not allow drivers to speed up to pass someone , vehicles will be restricted to the enforced speed limit.

Locally to me a few 40 limits have now been reduced to permanent 30 limits and even a slip /link road off the M23 which was 50 limit is now temporary a 30 limit.

Diesel cars have had their day the drive for cleaner vehicles is being led not by peer pressure but the concerns of the young who now have a bigger protest position with the recent rise in lobbying/peaceful protest. Cities now charging more and more for congestion/pollution charges for certain vehicles to enter them and eventually a complete ban will come in to force in years to come.

As an asthma sufferer I shouldn't have bought the diesel really.

 

I believe Volvo will be the first major manufacturer to totally move away from petrol, diesel.

I can remember the fuel supply & price hikes in the 1970's, which lead to changes in driving styles to increase economy.

When cycling I am often overtaken, only for the car to then brake to make a turn, when a few seconds delay behind would have achieved the same time at the turn without causing me to brake.

This got me to thinking about the extra fuel used to accelerate & then brake.

I know cars have improved immeasurably but it seems that the responsibility for fuel economy has been passed from the driver to the car manufacturer.

Just a bank holiday thought

You think about such things, many drivers simply never, ever think about anything.

And if you took the time to explain to them, they would not even understand!!

Thanks for your excellent thoughts.

Andy

Eventually I can see all 30 limits change to 20 limits which now appear on all new build projects and some local roads where traffic is heavy and busy, just as they are reduced near schools.

 

"Eventually" has existed for some while in my outer London borough, one of the largest in the country with a bigger population than most of our cities. The whole borough is 20 limit with just the main through routes mostly at 30 mph limit. Every street is heavily infested with main and repeater speed limit signs and the through routes have many speed warning cameras showing approaching vehicle speed. All the easily reachable 60 limit roads outside the area that use to exist changed to 40 mph very long ago.

 

In fact the south-east south of London all the way to the coast is so extensively 40 limited that a large proportion of drivers stick to 40 mph all the time. The few remaining 60 limit stretches on the main roads are often so short that it's not worth speeding up through them.

 

Another modern change that is also on my new car is that an exact copy of the current speed limit sign is displayed on the LCD dashboard directly in front of me all the time, that read by the car's camera and backed up by GPS. So there's no excuse like saying "I missed the sign" or " the sign was masked by trees".

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Edited May 26, 20196 yr by flecc

"Eventually" has existed for some while in my outer London borough, one of the largest in the country with a bigger population than most of our cities. The whole borough is 20 limit with just the main through routes mostly at 30 mph limit. Every street is heavily infested with main and repeater speed limit signs and the through routes have many speed warning cameras showing approaching vehicle speed. All the easily reachable 60 limit roads outside the area that use to exist changed to 40 mph very long ago.

 

In fact the south-east south of London all the way to the coast is so extensively 40 limited that a large proportion of drivers stick to 40 mph all the time. The few remaining 60 limit stretches on the main roads are often so short that it's not worth speeding up through them.

 

Another modern change that is also on my new car is that an exact copy of the current speed limit sign is displayed on the LCD dashboard directly in front of me all the time, that read by the car's camera and backed up by GPS. So there's no excuse like saying "I missed the sign" or " the sign was masked by trees".

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I don't think it will ever change,, to think of what their actions when they close pass just doesn't enter the consience, because you are a cyclist or predestined,it's something that isn't taught it seem to me,driver training seldom extends more from what you are trained to need to pass the driving test.

Untill the country gets back to the old days of progress from predestrian to full fledged motorist, I mean these days you can pass your test to drive a full on nutter bastard car from the age of 17, the motor cycle CBT scheme works well in this respect, I feet the same should apply to motor car, it is very much a case of education, and not by rote learning.

I don't think it will ever change,, to think of what their actions when they close pass just doesn't enter the consience, because you are a cyclist or predestined,it's something that isn't taught it seem to me,driver training seldom extends more from what you are trained to need to pass the driving test.

Untill the country gets back to the old days of progress from predestrian to full fledged motorist, I mean these days you can pass your test to drive a full on nutter bastard car from the age of 17, the motor cycle CBT scheme works well in this respect, I feet the same should apply to motor car, it is very much a case of education, and not by rote learning.

Sorry for typos,,but I feel you get my meaning

I don't think it will ever change until the country gets back to the old days of progress from pedestrian to full fledged motorist,

 

Don't go too far back though!

 

The driving licence was introduced in 1903, but a driving test wasn't introduced until 1st June 1935. Up until then one just walked into any Post Office and bought a licence, jumped into a car and drove off. As if that was not bad enough, meanwhile the Road Traffic Act 1930 had removed all speed limits in a year with very few vehicles on the roads and 7305 road deaths, mostly pedestrians.

 

Being as ancient as I am, I had an uncle with a no-test driving licence he bought in East Finchley Post Office.

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Edited May 26, 20196 yr by flecc

Petrol prices have already increased by a factor of 1,818

Lets check my maths here. I can remember paying 6shillings and 6pence for a gallon of petrol. That's equivalent to 32.5 new pence per GALLON ! Divide that into the current price per gallon (I used £1.30/litre) and you get 1818. That hasn't changed behaviour so I don't think price ever will.

It will take a huge re-education largely based on, 'This is the only planet we've got and we're very close to making uninhabitable'. That's you and me, myself, I. The days of, 'They should do something about it' are over. Self elected Individual responsibility, that's the only thing that's gonna do it.

I gotta say, I'm not hopeful.

Edited May 26, 20196 yr by Benjahmin

But there is hope, some of our enlightened euro neighbours, I am thinking primarily of the Dutch,do have cycle minded environments, if you never been there, I encourage you to take a visit .

This has come about because of civil disquiet about high mortality rates back in the fuel starved '70's ,and has been hard won from the government , by the Dutch, partly it's been helped by the topography of Holland ,but if there is a public commitment, there is a possibility it can happen here, but society has to make that change.

It's really what prompted me to get into ebikes, I'm quite tight compared to my friends (making sandwiches, no shop coffee, cycling in) but I already make decisions not to go somewhere due to the cost of petrol.

 

We opted for a mitsubishi PHEV rather than a full ev, 95% of the miles we do are on ev and we're very happy with it. The relevance to this topic is I can't believehow relaxed my driving style has become, it's now a game to see how far I can get on ev!

But there is hope, some of our enlightened euro neighbours, I am thinking primarily of the Dutch,do have cycle minded environments, if you never been there, I encourage you to take a visit .

This has come about because of civil disquiet about high mortality rates back in the fuel starved '70's ,and has been hard won from the government , by the Dutch, partly it's been helped by the topography of Holland ,but if there is a public commitment, there is a possibility it can happen here, but society has to make that change.

What they don't mention is the headwinds in every direction and horizontal rain! .Fantastic infrastructure and very welcoming people

What they don't mention is the headwinds in every direction and horizontal rain! .Fantastic infrastructure and very welcoming people

At the very least they are fit and clean!, From the weather effects.

I am too settled in Britain now, but I could be easily swayed to up sticks and live in the Netherlands, it Brexit has scuppered taking up residency,the deadline to register for domiciliary status has passed.

At the very least they are fit and clean!, From the weather effects.

I am too settled in Britain now, but I could be easily swayed to up sticks and live in the Netherlands, it Brexit has scuppered taking up residency,the deadline to register for domiciliary status has passed.

Oh man, me too. Imagine living in Amsterdam! My brother lives in Berlin and that's a great place to bring up a young child

Oh man, me too. Imagine living in Amsterdam! My brother lives in Berlin and that's a great place to bring up a young child

I am sure Amsterdam is a great city,stayed overnight once, but I am not a city person,prefer the country

I can remember paying 6shillings and 6pence for a gallon of petrol.

 

My motorcycling started at 2 shillings per gallon, very shortly after jumping to 2 shillings and 6 pence at which its stayed for at least four years. It might have been longer, but for the next six years the army paid for all the petrol I used.

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We opted for a mitsubishi PHEV rather than a full ev, 95% of the miles we do are on ev and we're very happy with it. The relevance to this topic is I can't believe how relaxed my driving style has become,

 

The incredible relaxed driving style is the same for me with my full electric car, but not for range reasons, simply because the precise electric control, smoothness and silence is so relaxing.

 

I think e-cars will greatly reduce urban accidents, contrary to those who think their silence will lead to more.

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Petrol prices have already increased by a factor of 1,818

Lets check my maths here. I can remember paying 6shillings and 6pence for a gallon of petrol. That's equivalent to 32.5 new pence per GALLON ! Divide that into the current price per gallon (I used £1.30/litre) and you get 1818. That hasn't changed behaviour so I don't think price ever will.

It will take a huge re-education largely based on, 'This is the only planet we've got and we're very close to making uninhabitable'. That's you and me, myself, I. The days of, 'They should do something about it' are over. Self elected Individual responsibility, that's the only thing that's gonna do it.

I gotta say, I'm not hopeful.

I make that a factor of 181.8, still a big number though.

Every price increase already changes driving habits.. Unfortunately fuel duty and production costs are a blunt instrument and impact disproportionately upon the poorer in our communities. So whilst it has already driven vast numbers of the low paid out of their cars and onto public transport or even out of work, it has done nothing to impact upon the habits of the higher paid. What it has definitely not done is make any impact what so ever on global carbon gases.

We will see more of that which Flecc has mentioned regarding speed limits.

The Sq mile in the city is to become a compulsory 15mph limit and rest of London is to become a 20mph limit.

Classic example this morning. I was riding along a residential street, heard a siren, looked in my mirror & saw a couple of cars behind me & behind them an ambulance with its blue lights flashing.

Yes- both cars overtook me, forcing the ambulance to overtake the cars overtaking me.

It's not education that some motorists need, first driving lesion - mirror signal manoeuvre.

I assume that drivers do not regard bikes as road vehicles, but rather obstacles to be negotiated, hence the normal rules of the road do not apply