Hi ! And is there a tour de Presteign this year?

[jontee]

Hi - stumbled on your forum by chance and thought i would join
I have owned my unbranded (chinese) folding 36v for approx 2 years and i am still pleased with its performance. I have been a cyclist for years and years ( since i was 3 ) and thought why not try something out of the ordinary and i am glad i did but still enjoy 'proper' bikes. I feel that it's a pity that more cyclists can't be more open minded about Ebikes/pedelecs but i have noticed (unfortunately) that over the last 15 years or so that cycling has become much more fashion orientated and as a result people are a little more reluctant to try new concepts. Just my opinion and i don't mean to cause any upset

I live in the mid Shropshire area and i am keen to atempt a self build and would appreciate any thoughts on this one.

Also does anyone if there is there a tour de Presteign this year?

 

[flecc]

Helo Jontee, welcome to the forum. There will be a Tour de Presteigne this year, and hopefully a dry one this time, the last one as much an aquatic event as anything.

Many of us share your thoughts on bike fashion and it's perverse influences, and the mountain bike style fashion has certainly held back e-bikes since they can't easily be made into that style with reliability at a reasonable cost. I've had many who've admired my e-bikes ask if they are made in mountain bike styling.

If you go back through the threads of the last four or five pages you'll find a number of threads on kit self build projects that will give ideas to start from.
.

 

[alanterrill]

Yes there is!

I've just received this from Pete Mustill:

It looked like there was to be no Tour this year as I was so terminally depressed after last years washed out debacle that I just couldn't face it. However the cavalry, in the shape of The Presteigne Eco Weekend and Bishops Castle 'Green Wheels', have ridden over the hill at the last possible moment and persuaded me to get back on my horse. In fact this year will be bigger better but hopefully not wetter!

Tour de Presteigne, Eco Weekend and Green Wheels are going to gang up and provide you with a fun packed weekend. Their will be stalls, a 70ft geodesic dome full of electric bikes, novelty electric bike races, electric country rambles, a hillclimb, discussions for the industry and the public, eco cars, scooters, puppet shows, a live music gig in the dome, and of course the fantastic 'Tour de Presteigne' one hour endurance rally around the streets of Presteigne as it was in 2006.

I know its very short notice but I hope you can all come on the Sat 17th and Sun 18th of May and please tell anyone you know who may be interested - be they manufacturers, suppliers or just interested bodies. Otherwise give me their details and I will send them information.

Will e mail more information, a schedule and accommodation details as soon as I have a programme sorted and will post details on the town web site Presteigne & Norton Website .
Any questions just contact me

Regards Pete Mustill
01544 267163

 

[jontee]

Thanks for the info - the date is in my diary - hope to meet some of you there! As for the self build - what type of cycle makes for the most successful build?

 

[flecc]

Thanks Alan, I was convinced that there would be a Tour this year, despite the gloomy prior indications. Somehow I can't see this one ever going away, and it will probably become the stuff of legends over time.
.

 

[flecc]

As for the self build - what type of cycle makes for the most successful build?

Difficult one, so subjective, since most styles can have electric assist added.

My own preference is always for a conventional diamond frame bike with centrally mounted battery for best overall balance, but many kits have rack mount batteries or they just leave it to the builder to do what they think best. If you're going for a front hub motor, especially the larger ones, the weight can cause discomfort up through the bars due to the weight hammering on the road and transmitting the vibration up. Choosing a sprung fork bike can alleviate that.

You need a minimum 100 mm spacing front fork for front hub motors, or a minimum 135 mm spacing rear A frame for a rear hub motor to accommodate a multi sprocket freewheel for a derailleur as well.

Current popular motor choices are small medium power internally geared hub motors (Tongxin Nano), large high power direct drive hub motors (Crystalyte), both those for the front wheel, a quite high powered one for front or rear wheel (Heinzmann) and the sophisticated BionX direct drive hub motor for the rear wheel. There's also the Cyclone chain drive bottom bracket motor, but it does have some problems on finish, waterproofing, eratic colour codes and inadequate fitting instructions. Finally the long established Currie Electrodrive motor sits at the left of the rear wheel and drives through a spoke attachment.

Those are just outlines, and there's no substitute for looking at what others have done for ideas. If you go to Presteigne you'll see many variants there to inspire you with your own ideas for what you'd like.
.

 

[jontee]

Thanks for the pointers Flecc. I will certainly be at Presteign. What about power? Are lead acid still the best for range/power/cost?

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the pointers Flecc. I will certainly be at Presteign. What about power? Are lead acid still the best for range/power/cost?

Only the Powabykes seem to be able to combine long range and a quite good performance from lead acid. With most bikes the range is very short, about 10 to 15 miles, but lead acid is by far the cheapest. Very much old technology now though. Prices very variable, but individual 12 volt batteries to make up packs with two or three of them are from about £12 to £25 each. Make your own box or bag in some cases.

Many of us are faithful to NiMh, but it's getting increasingly difficult to source cells so they are dropping out of favour, and the earlier NiCads are finished now on environmental grounds. Range on most manufactured bikes with NiMh is around 18 to 22 miles. Prices: from £129 for 24 volt, from £200 for 36 volt.

Today's flavour is lithium, as Lithium-ion and lithium-ion polymer types. These seem to work well on low to medium power bikes, but there has been trouble on some higher powered bikes with the batteries unable to deliver enough current. We seem to be at the solution point with that now though, with some better types available. A select few of the complete e-bikes can give as much as 50 miles range with care on these, though 20 to 25 miles is more common. Prices very variable depending on quality, cheap 26 volt £200, 36 volt £280. For top quality batteries those are £300 and £450.

Tomorrows batteries are likely to be lithium-iron phosphate, and some small cells are being tried on bikes currently. Experimental and a risk of failure with lost high costs though.
.

 

[jontee]

Only the Powabykes seem to be able to combine long range and a quite good performance from lead acid.

Tomorrows batteries are likely to be lithium-iron phosphate, and some small cells are being tried on bikes currently. Experimental and a risk of failure with lost high costs though.
.

Looks like i'll be going with lead acid for the foreseeable - due to cost and at least they are recyclable. Maybe these lithium type are the holy grail.

Sorry to be a bit ignorant - but could you clarify the difference between pedelec,powabykes and Ebikes (would this be pedal assist/twist grip control/pedal only like my cheapy beginers).

 

[flecc]

Sorry to be a bit ignorant - but could you clarify the difference between pedelec,powabykes and Ebikes (would this be pedal assist/twist grip control/pedal only like my cheapy beginers).

No problem, it is a bit of a tangle:

Although we often refer to E-bikes for all electric assist bikes, strictly speaking, e-bikes are throttle controlled bikes.

Pedelecs are the bikes which will only apply motor power while the pedals are being turned, though the amount of that power can be controlled by a throttle.

Powabyke is only a proprietary manufacturer's name for their electric bike.

Many bikes have a switch enabling them to be used either way, throttle only, or in the other mode, pedelec with or without the throttle operating depending on the designers choice.

Throttle control only is unique to Britain in Europe, and we were supposed to be pedelec only like the rest of Europe, only a civil service administrative mistake leaving us in limbo. It's widely expected that this will be tidied up shortly and all new bikes will have to be pedelec. Existing bikes with throttles will be legal indefinitely after that date though.
.

 

[Sector]

It's widely expected that this will be tidied up shortly and all new bikes will have to be pedelec. Existing bikes with throttles will be legal indefinitely after that date though.
.

So buy your throttle control bike now before the nanny state stops this superior type of bike from being supplied!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Throttle

In Germany, it seems they can get around this silly law buy buying the bike and throttle separately.

Does anyone know whether this is in fact the case, it's a bit if a grey area.

Regards David

 

[flecc]

I believe that's only if the bike is treated as a different type then David, falling into the high speed class unique to Germany within the EU, and subject to compulsory third party insurance and cycle helmet wearing.

Under the normal rules it's quite clear that the bikes have to be pedelec, power only when pedalled, though the amount of power can be throttle controlled.
.

 

[alanterrill]

Presteigne update

Here's the latest:
Despite the soaking we all received at last years event The Tour de Presteigne is back. Its not only back its bigger and better due to the enthusiastic participation of Green Wheels and The Presteigne Eco Weekend. The event will take place over 2 days this year giving everybody lots of time to get involved with all the activities, try out the electric bikes and talk about alternative transport ideas until they are blue in the face.

This years Rally is aimed not just at amateur electric bike enthusiasts and those wishing to purchase an electric bike but also everybody who is unhappy about their gas guzzler and is looking for alternatives. We intend to feature displays of electric and hybrid cars, scooters and motorbikes as well as recumbent bicycles and trikes. We will also be inviting exhibitors of many different fuel sources including Bio fuels and Hydrogen Fuel Cells as well as bus companies, car sharing schemes, local cycling groups and walkers.


The main festival site will make use of a large geodesic dome to provide plenty of covered space for exhibitors and this will be situated on a quiet cul-de-sac that has plenty of hard-standing on which the public can try out bikes. The talks and discussions will take place in The Presteigne Assembly Rooms and the final 1 hour rally on the Sunday will return to the very popular route it used in 2006 around the centre of town.

PROGRAMME
Saturday
11- 5.30 FESTIVAL SITE
Exhibition of electric bikes and a chance to try all the new models plus
displays of cars scooters and trikes etc.
12 noon THE HILL CLIMB
A chance for the bikes to pit themselves against one of Presteigne’s more unforgiving inclines
2pm THE ASSEMBLY ROOMS
Question Time with Eco celebrities. Time to pose some tricky questions about the future of transport to the experts.
4pm A COUNTRY RIDE
A 12 mile dawdle for all eco transport forms round some of the borders most picturesque lanes.
8pm AT THE DOME
Live music and entertainment, local ales, cider and wine plus a chance to chin-wag with other enthusiasts.
Sunday
11- 5.30 FESTIVAL SITE
Exhibition of electric bikes and a chance to try all the new models plus
displays of cars scooters and trikes etc.
2.30 - 3.30pm THE TOUR DE PRESTEIGNE The Worlds premier electric bike rally round the streets of Presteigne. This year there will be classes for both standard and modified bikes. (Entrants must be over 14 and wear a cycle helmet.)

If you would like to know more, find out about accommodation, take part as
a competitor or to exhibit your wares get in touch now with
Pete Mustill 01544 267163 or email: broadsheep@aol.com
Mayfield, Stapleton, Presteigne, Powys, LD8 2LS
web: Presteigne & Norton Website

Fees for participants and exhibitors:
£45 for a stall, chairs, tables and a power point under
cover all day at the Festival site plus Rally entry.
£10 Competitors for the Rally includes entry numbers
and access to a power point on the Festival site.

 

[frank9755]

Here's the latest:
Entrants must ... wear a cycle helmet.

Er... why???
A shame that such an interesting event has chosen to take such a stance.

 

[flecc]

As they are public roads, they can be ridden on by any cyclist not wearing a helmet, though it's possible the police will be used illegally to prevent anyone lawfully using the road at those times. Wouldn't be the first time.
.

 

[Ian]

Entrants must ... wear a cycle helmet.

Perhaps it's getting more commercial and they need the advertising space.

 

[stokepa31]

They would have to go through a formal process to close roads with statutory consultation of the emergency services. The Helmet issue might be a condition of arranging public liability insurance for the event.

Regards
Paul

 

[rooel]

"(Entrants must be over 14 and wear a cycle helmet.)"

I was considering attending, but definitely not now.

This condition is just pandering to those insurance companies who seek to reduce compensation to cyclists injured in collisions on the basis that they were not wearing a helmet, regardless of the site of the injury or the ineffectiveness of helmets in protecting from injury.

 

[flecc]

I was sure it would be the insurance, but agree with Rooel, it's definitely out now. I never submit to this sort of back door enforcement.
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