Help with the law please

[david1949]

I have a friend a motorhomer like myself with a E Bike again like my self we were at a rally the other weekend and were out on are e bikes. We were cycling along the cycle lane on the footpath when a person walked out of a gate and straight into the path of my friend on his bike. The ambulance was called and the police it turned out the person has a broken leg my friend was OK but the front wheel on his bike is a right off.

It turns out now that the police is going to prosecute him as the bike has a 250 watts motor and should have tax and insurance. As my e bike has the same motor could someone please tell me the law regarding E Bikes please.

 

[indalo]

As my e bike has the same motor could someone please tell me the law regarding E Bikes please.

Your friend needs to speak with a solicitor if the police have decided to charge him. It's easy for people here to refer to regulations regarding electric-assist bicycles but it seems unlikely to me that police would seek to charge someone from the situation you have described.

Indalo

 

[flecc]

Seeing that you are in Belfast, I take it this event occurred in Northern Ireland.

If so, the British EAPC 200 watt regulations have never applied of course, but you are subject to UK law.

The UK government passed into force the mandatory EU type approval order 2002/24/EC on 10th November 2003, this specifying that bicycles with motors up to 250 watts with pedelec control are not motor vehicles subject to type approval. Here's an outline of the details:

Pedelecs up to 25 km/h (16 mph) and a motor no more than 250 Watts rated output are considered bicyles. Type approval is not required. Applicable November 9, 2003 in all EU Member States.

The EU-Directive 2002/24/EC concerning the Type approval for two and three wheeled vehicles has been released by the European Parliament and the Council on March 18, 2002.

In Article1 (h) “cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedaling” are excluded from type approval.

Pedelecs which exceed the technical specifications must have a type approval and are classified as “mopeds”, and must consequently abide by all additional laws, i.e. motorcycle helmet, adequate brakes, mirrors etc.

The EU Directive 2002/24/EC comes into effect on
May 9, 2003 and will replace the current Directive
92/61/EEC.

Until May 9, 2003 the current national regulations concerning the status of pedelecs will remain unchanged.
After May 9, 2003, the EU Member States have the choice of either keeping their current regulations for another 6 months or changing over to the EU-directive.

By November 9, 2003 all Members of the EU are required to integrate this Directive into their national legislation and abolish their previous regulations.

Therefore either the UK law which includes this must apply, or the Northern Ireland Assembly must conform with this pan EU mandatory order.

A complete official copy of 2002/24/EC is on this web link

A good start point is to find out what regulation the police intend to apply.
.

 

[GT3]

One has symathies in all directions here. The law is too complex for any bobby to know a fraction of it. The police will gather evidence and submit a file to the Crown Prosecution Service, who are expected to either know the law, or look it up.

At that stage, they will realise the prosecution stands no chance of success and withdraw (providing it is a legal bike).

Sadly, a civil action for damages will not be so easily overcome.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I agree with both of the above statements, a prosecution would probably not be bought in the first place and if it were, it would more than likely the case would be dismissed or acquitted.... according to my local magistrates court, as long as the correct arguments were made.

The situation at the moment is ridiculous most bikes in the UK conform to the European laws and standards and are as, if not safer than bikes at the outer parameters UK standards.

Best regards

David

 

[Kudoscycles]

David,1949.....this is exactly the sort of incident that we have all been fearing would happen....as long as your friend has a legal bike he should have nothing to worry about....but imagine now what his worries would be if his bike was one of the illegals,deemed private road use only,we all know these illegal bikes are used on public roads-one guy on here openly admitted that he rides his illegal bike on the promenade...perhaps time to consider the implications?
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[Axcess Electric Bikes]

I think you will find the following website useful.

The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983

The main word here is "continuous"

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David,1949.....this is exactly the sort of incident that we have all been fearing would happen....as long as your friend has a legal bike he should have nothing to worry about....but imagine now what his worries would be if his bike was one of the illegals,deemed private road use only,we all know these illegal bikes are used on public roads-one guy on here openly admitted that he rides his illegal bike on the promenade...perhaps time to consider the implications?
Dave
KudosCycles

Absolutely Dave, maybe this is not such a bad thing after all.

Regards

David

 

[eddieo]

I am sure once the police realise they have made an error things will be OK. But sounds like you had right of way and its really the pedestrians fault? different if they were walking either toward you or away from you on the same path, then it would probably be your friends fault..

Did the police seize the bike? reason I ask is would I have time to restrict it again!

try and get as much detail as possible and please keep us updated. Like others have said some have been waiting for this to happen, even though I feel pretty confident its not the first...

I know you have an Oxygen, what was your friends bike?

 

[david1949]

First i would to say thank you to you all for your replies and yes the bike was seize by the police for testing and Roy my friend was brought to the police station on Tuesday and charged for no tax are insurance and having a unregistered road vehicle. This was the other person fault they walked out of there gate and straight into the path of the bike without looking. The bike is a Giant and he bought it at a motorhome show last year i have printed of some of your replies for him. He also has been in touch with Giant and they have been most helpful saying that they will send out a letter to him for his solicitor explaining that the bike is with in E U Law and also told him that D P P wont take it to court . So with all the replies from this forum and the letter from Giant i would think it wont get to court but i will keep all on this forum informed on the outcome

 

[flecc]

Yes please David, we need to know any action any police force takes pending the long delayed revision of our laws to bring them into line with the rest of Europe.

I'm glad Giant have given their support which should be influential.

 

[steve.c]

Ban ????

Hi. As I have said on here before the reason I have an electric bike Is because I'm banned from driving!. On a coarse I took there was a policeman who gave a speach and answered questions and I asked him if you are banned from driving can you ride an electric cycle and quick as a a flash he said NO YOU CAN'T!!!! At the time I said nothing but I tackled him later & he spent about 15mins looking through books and then appoligised and said he was wrong so it seems most officers have no idea of this law ????

 

[flecc]

Most officers don't, but even for the diligent ones who look into this issue, there are many conflicting regulations which can be difficult to understand even for lawyers. Even the Department for Transport refuse to give a definitive ruling on the power limit, saying it's a matter for the courts to rule upon.

 

[mike killay]

My guess is that the officer used words to the effect:-
'The facts will be reported for a prosecution to be considered for..........'
Then added virtually everything that he could think of.
What will happen is that he will need advice from supervisors, and at that point, the true situation that electric bikes do not need tax and insurance will be realised.

 

[eddieo]

My guess is that the officer used words to the effect:-
'The facts will be reported for a prosecution to be considered for..........'
Then added virtually everything that he could think of.
What will happen is that he will need advice from supervisors, and at that point, the true situation that electric bikes do not need tax and insurance will be realised.

Legal ones anyway......At a very rough guess I would think that 20% on here are not.

The fact that ebikes can be so easily de restricted due to manufacturers making it easy for themselves to adapt bikes for different markets. Is this simply not to tempting for the average person...

 

[rooel]

The EU regulations quoted by flecc refer to "pedelecs". Do pedelecs include bikes which, in addition to the pedelec function, also have a throttle which can drive the bike without simultaneously pedalling?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

This may well be a problem Rooel if people have tampered with their bikes.

To conform to EU regs a pedelec cannot be driven on throttle alone over 6kph. However the throttle can work as long as the pedals are being turned in a forward direction.

I would suggest that if anyone has managed to de restrict their bike's speed or changed the throttle from restricted to full use it may be worth restricting them again?

All the best

David

 

[rooel]

Actually, David, Wisper, it is a problem too for those who have fitted 250 watt motor kits with independent throttle. Such bikes comply with the EU regulations for wattage, but not for the throttle, and comply with the UK regulations for the throttle, but not for the wattage. I believe that when the EU regulations are fully incorporated in UK law with a repeal of the existing UK regulations, existing bikes which do comply with the UK regulations (independent throttle and 200 watt motor) will be exempt. However those with a 250 watt motor and an independent throttle will still be illegal.

 

[flecc]

Perhaps not Rooel, fortunately the latest recommendations from the European Parliament to the European Commission are for no power limit and throttles permitted. Since the DfT are waiting for the latest EU moves before altering our law, we may yet be able to have almost all previous bikes legal.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Perhaps not Rooel, fortunately the latest recommendations from the European Parliament to the European Commission are for no power limit and throttles permitted. Since the DfT are waiting for the latest EU moves before altering our law, we may yet be able to have almost all previous bikes legal.

Thanks Flecc, I was in the middle of a very similar reply!

Best regards

David